Re-rolls and Admiral Traits

[Democratus]

Our campaign is due to have a battle this weekend where one of the players is bringing G'Sten. G'Sten has the trait, Lucky, which allows a certain number of re-rolls.

We are a bit confused as to the extent of this ability. The rules state that you can only ever re-roll once. So that creates some problems with other mechanics in the game.

For example, what about a beam attack? Could a player wait till the entire attack was resolved and then ask it to be re-rolled? Since a great deal of re-rolling was done just to do a beam attack this doesn't seem possible. Maybe the player can only ask for the first throw of the beam dice to be re-rolled?

What about Twin Linked weapons? Does G'Sten need to insist on a re-roll only after the first rolling is done? Does this then prevent the second re-roll allowed from twin linking?

Does anyone have a good set of guidelines for how this can be handled?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Greg Smith]

A re-roll is one single dice.

So if you rolled 14AD, lucky could only re-roll one of those.

You can't re-roll a re-roll, so no to twin-linked.

For beam dice a good rule of thumb is the just the first dice. But if you are rolling a 6AD beam, you can only reroll 1 of those AD.

Re-rolls are best saved for vital rolls - stealth; when the enemy rolls a vital crit on the crit location, make him reroll that; or a despearate come about! CQ roll.

 

[Democratus]

I'm not sure I follow you. Re-rolling initiative would involve two dice, and that is common in battles with scouts.

The Admiral Trait states that the ability may be used on "any one dice roll" - not that it may be used to roll only one die. G'Sten's is worded a bit differently - but I think it is a misprint "any one dice" should read "any one dice roll". Because if it was meant to be a single die then the words "any one die" should have been used.

As for twin-linked attacks. Perhaps the ruling should be to allow the opponent the opportunity to ask for a re-roll. If he takes it, then the attack dice are re-rolled and no twin-linked affect happens. If not, then the attacker may continue with the standard TL re-roll.

I believe the most critical use in our battle will be with beam attacks and critical hit locations. Both involve multiple dice.

Any suggestions or pointers on how to handle this? I can see it becoming a point of heated debate if we don't resolve it ahead of time.

 

[Burger]

Greg is correct, you only get to re-roll one dice result.

Since the 2 dice of initiative are added together, they count as one result. Same would apply to any other roll of multiple dice where the numbers are added up to get one result (can't think of any more situations like that though?).

The individual AD of a weapon are not added up; they each cause individual hits which are rolled on the damage table. Therefore re-rolling one dice result means re-rolling one AD.

You can never re-roll a re-roll so it doesn't stack with TL. If you miss with a TL weapon you get to re-roll it anyway. You can't re-roll it if you miss again, by using G'Sten or XP or any other means.

 

[Democratus]

What about Critical location rolls? The result only makes sense after two dice have been rolled, but they aren't added together.

Should the Luck trait only allow you to re-roll one of the two dice?

I'm not trying to be difficult - simply trying to work out all the kinks before the battle to reduce misunderstanding during.

 

[Triggy]

Yes, you would only re-roll one of the two dice there. You could makethe same argument for the attack roll as a whole - it only makes sense after you have rolled stealth, to hit, dodge, attack table, critical location and effect (and with adaptive armour, you'd only know the full effect after all of the attack dice had been resolved!)

The way to keep it simple is you may re-roll any dice that are added together to make a total otherwise you may only re-roll a single die.

Here's a thought - could you re-roll the terrain rolls, etc. using lucky?

 

[Burger]

The first "result" of the crit roll is deciding which area. That is 1 dice, and it has 1 result. Then you roll a second result for which specific crit. So you would only be able to re-roll one of these using XP or "lucky", of course if you want to re-roll the first dice you have to say so before the second one has been rolled.

The way to keep it simple is you may re-roll any dice that are added together to make a total otherwise you may only re-roll a single die.

Yes that is what I was trying to say

Here's a thought - could you re-roll the terrain rolls, etc. using lucky?

Heh. It does say the re-rolls can be used in the battle - not sure if that includes using them before the battle begins...

 

[Foxmeister]

Here's a thought - could you re-roll the terrain rolls, etc. using lucky?

Heh. It does say the re-rolls can be used in the battle - not sure if that includes using them before the battle begins...

That would also preclude them being used for re-rolling initiative for set up purposes, which also occurs pre battle.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Triggy]

Just to throw another spanner in the works - where does it say that the battle begins with the first movement phase and not with choosing a mission and fleets?

 

[Burger]

I would understand it from the word "battle". A battle is a fight, not doing a bit of space-landscaping!

Plus most scenarios have a "pre-battle preparation" section which details scenery, set-up etc. It wouldn't be pre-battle if it was actually part of the battle now would it?

 

[lastbesthope]

I would understand it from the word "battle". A battle is a fight, not doing a bit of space-landscaping!

I dunno, there was that time Jonny 'NukeEm' Sheridan sent MArcus off to shoot at some asteroids :lol:

LBH

 

[AdrianH]

But absolutely nothing happened on that occasion.

Checking the rules, I notice that Luck re-rolls can be applied to any dice rolls "between Initiative and Attack Dice". Taken literally, that would rule out scenery re-rolls - and it would also rule out re-rolls of damage or criticals.

Personally, if G'Sten wants to waste some of his luck re-rolls on scenery, I'd let him. Maybe he just wants to make sure there aren't any asteroids around if he's facing Stealth opponents. So he got lucky, that asteroid field isn't there any more because Marcus has just been there. :lol: (I'm not sure how to explain it if the asteroid is re-rolled and becomes a planet, though...)

 

[Burger]

Checking the rules, I notice that Luck re-rolls can be applied to any dice rolls "between Initiative and Attack Dice". Taken literally, that would rule out scenery re-rolls - and it would also rule out re-rolls of damage or criticals.

The book says "These may be used on any one dice roll in the battle, even those of the Narn’s opponent, from Initiative to Attack Dice". This surely means that it can be used for any roll, the init and AD rolls beign given as examples, not meaning literally any roll that occurs between the initiative roll and the attack dice roll!

 

[AdrianH]

OK, "substitute "from... to..." instead of "between... and...". The point still stands - scenery rolls are before initiative, damage rolls come after attack dice. (Although the damage and critical rolls from one set of attack dice do come before the next set of attack dice, unless they're the result of the last attack this turn. )

That's just one way of looking at RAW, though. As I said, I'd let G'Sten re-roll scenery if he really wants to. If he has any Luck re-rolls left after that, he's welcome to use them on damage and criticals too.

 

[mollari_uk]

I agree with Burger as to the RAW. I think the rule is refering to the initiative that's rolled every turn. Not the one in pre-game setup and is giving two examples not a range of phases in which the ability can be used.

I can't see why it shouldn't be allowed on the pre-battle initiative though.

You can't use it to re-roll scenery or scenario (if in a campaign) or anything else pre-battle.

IMO.

 

[Foxmeister]

Just to throw another spanner in the works - where does it say that the battle begins with the first movement phase and not with choosing a mission and fleets?

As has been previously said, fleet and terrain set up occur in "Pre-Battle Preparation" as per scenario listings. Pre-Battle clearly implies before the battle begins, but as to whether this in the intention or not I couldn't say.

Certainly I think I'd be inclined to allow lucky re-rolls in this stage, simply because the terms upon which two sides actually meet is often going to be influenced by the luck of the draw!

Regards,

Dave