Ratio of world info to rules

[Kheti sa-menik]

Hey folks. Longtime LW fan here. Love Shadow on the Sand!!!!! The ominous music that plays (in my head) as you head from Part One to Part Two.

Anyway, I've been reading the message boards and reviews all over the internet and heard that the LW RPG doesn't use the normal D20 ruleset. AOOs were eliminated, other combat changes, classes are very specialized...you can't be a normal warrior type but instead a Border Knight, Kai Lord, etc.

So I'm going to be doing a D&D game in Magnamund. I love the world of LW. The Vassagonian-Darklands alliance, the Cener threat. I really want to explore the Northern Lencia situation..the crusade the Lencians have to reclaim their conquered northern territory from the Drakkarim.
Magnamund is full of such flavor and history.
Why Mongoose had to fiddle with the rules when they could have just designed a campaign setting rather than a whole new game is beyond me, but that's neither here nor there.

However, I did want to see the LWRPG book for myself.
More importantly, I need more info on Magnamund than the Magnamund Companion provides and how it integrates into a game setting.
If it contained a ton of info on Magnamund, I still might aquire it.
I went to my FLGS and no copies....I went to the other FLGS...no copies.
I went to other places that carry RPG material....Barnes & Noble, Media Play, Waldenbooks, a couple hobby shops....no copies.
Sure, I can get it online but I hate buying gaming material sight unseen.

So, coming to my point, my question is what is the ratio of world material to LW game mechanics in the book?
50% LW mechanics, 50% world info? 70/30? 30/70?
If I buy the book solely for Magnamund info, will I be disappointed, toss it on a shelf and never use it again?

Is the world information detailed?

 

[Methos]

the answer is easy

as a fan you wont be disappointed

the 3 books so far a great, in the main rule book you get a timeline, a gazetter of magnamund and a map (many more things but the rest is for playing the game and not infos on the world)

in MoM you get infos on the culture of lyris and kundi and some infos on the ceners (all included in the classes)

in the darklands suppl. you get hell of infos on the darklands and helgedad
the only sad thing here is, you don´t get a map of the darklands (helgedad yes but not the darklands)

so in total i would say its around 50%/50%

hope it helps

 

[Confused Wolf]

so in total i would say its around 50%/50%

That's a rather optimistic estimation, imo. I'd say the ratio rules/setting is more like 70/30.

Still, the material is very good, so I advise you to get it anyway. And take a look at the rules, too. Maybe you'll like them.

 

[Smiling Fox]

The rules are great! Simplified and they catch the feeling of the books in an excellent way! The Gazetter is essentially built as the Magnamund Companion, but has relevant information for EVERY country and adventure hooks as well. The only thing that's missing is a description of Daziarn

 

[Sabbak]

It's difficult to answer your question because MANY background infos are mixed with the rules. And that way of doing is great!

I personnaly think that you won't be disappointed for mainly two reasons:

1) The "only-background-infos" ranged from p. 181 to p. 249. That's a lot... and you must add many pages to that count to include the bestiary, the equipement and magical stuff description (which can also be considered as "background"). And don't forget a huge full color map at the end of the book.

2) The rules are totally "D&D compatible". If you play any variation of D&D you can find interesting things in the LW rules. I promise you!
Plus you have specific rules to manage all the classes including Kai Lords and so on.

Honestly, I can't find any reason not to buy the core book (except perhaps for some illustrations but that's a matter of personnal choice).

 

[parvatiquinta]

Why Mongoose had to fiddle with the rules when they could have just designed a campaign setting rather than a whole new game is beyond me, but that's neither here nor there.

Because they would have had to use rules that do not fit with Joe Dever's unique creations as well as the new ones. In my fifteen-years long experience of gaming, I've seen that rules do matter as they help creating the feeling of your game. Kai Lords made with D&D Psionics simply wouldn't have been Kai Lords.

That said, the history of Magnamund and the gazzetteer cover about 1/3 of the core rulebook. I found them interesting, but not very detailed (though much more so than MC). There's still much to explore IMHO. Which is good for a core rulebook, and you get lots of basic information that were sort of suggested but never pointed out in the gamebooks.
Since rules chapters do offer world material too, I think it makes an overall ratio of 50/50.

Hope this helps.

 

[columbob]

To add to what's already been said, apart from a few combat mechanics, the rules are fully compatible with d20 products already. A few skills have been amalgamated (swimming and jumping are now athletics, and listen and spot are now perception, for example), and the combat rules streamlined slightly, with the addition of new rules for magical and psychic combat.

The magic and psychic systems are completely different, but by no means incompatible, because they use d20 game mechanics anyways. However, gone are the hundreds of clerical and wizardly spells and psionic powers, and feats. Instead, each class has its own unique brand of magic and class features, which they gain as they rise through their levels. It's a very interesting way of presenting classes, and most people I know agree that it works pretty well.

In the end, if you're a LW fan, I don't think you'd be disappointed by the LWRPG, as very few people have (in fact, only 1 person who posted on the Tower of the Sun forums has expressed his disappointment, and when asked to elaborate by August Hahn himself, the author of the book, he simply fled and never came back).

 

[Kheti sa-menik]

Thanks for all your responses.
Actually I'm excited to hear about a big full color map. Is it true to the Magnamund Companion and adventure books' maps? That sounds awesome.

I'm not saying the rules are bad but what if you just want to create a standard sword swinging mercenary and not a Border Knight, Dwarven Gunner, Kai Lord, Dessi Mage? What if you simply want to play a rogue-type? It seems to me that the classes that I've seen that are in the core book are more suited to Prestige Classes than base classes. I like feats that customize fighters and other characters.

And as someone else pointed out on here, it seems like every Kai Lord will be the same, every Crystal Star wizard will be the same, etc.

Why tinker with the combat system?

Anyway, all that being said, I'll probably still pick it up.....but it appears I'll have to go a long distance or order it online for the reasons in my original post. Stupid LGS.

 

[Smiling Fox]

Not really. Kai Lords and Brotherhood Mages will essentially look the same when reaching the 20th level, but the way there can be done in MANY different ways. As in the books, a Kai Lord chooses a new skill every level, but also improves those that he has already learnt. The Brotherhood mage choose between the ten classical spells described in the Magnamund Companion until 10th level, when some greatly improved versions of the spells become available.

 

[mthomason]

Why tinker with the combat system?

The LW combat system is simpler, cleaner and faster, helping to give the same feel as combat in the books. It's not wildly different to standard d20 combat, just more.. streamlined. You can always drop in the standard combat rules if you don't like these ones

 

[columbob]

Thanks for all your responses.
Actually I'm excited to hear about a big full color map. Is it true to the Magnamund Companion and adventure books' maps? That sounds awesome.

The map itself is of the entire continent, both Northern and Southern Magnamund, just like in the Magnamund Companion. Not all cities are marked, of course, but there are still quite a few.

Actually, take a look at it right here!:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/magnamundsmall.jpg

Anyway, all that being said, I'll probably still pick it up.....but it appears I'll have to go a long distance or order it online for the reasons in my original post. Stupid LGS.

I like ordering from Amazon, as I get my stuff relatively quickly (if available in 24 hours) and they usually give a discount over the cover price for gaming material (among other things).

 

[Skyman]

In a game I'm in I'm currently playing a standard sword-swinging mercenary. It's a created class, but it was pretty darn easy to do. Basically I gave him a DnD feat every odd level and a class ability from some of the combat classes in LW every even level. I'd say that you could run a Magnamund campaign with plenty of variation by adding a generic fighter and rogue class. Different kinds of magic all seem pretty different, so sticking with the mage classes in the book would work fine, and the Kai Lord and other unique classes would add some flavor for those who want those specific backgrounds.

And I also am someone who tends to prefer the standard combat rules (at least some of them). It's not difficult at all to add back in AoOs and such, and when teaching new d20 players, LW is a lot easier using its standard rules.

 

[Ghost Bear]

Also, there's a Might of Magnamund book due out sometime, which will have details of new fighter classes. There may very well be a 'mercenary' class in that book. In fact, I'd expect one to be there, since much is made of the Stornlands mercenaries in both the gamebooks and the gazetteer section of the RPG.

-GB

 

[Kheti sa-menik]

Hey folks. Finally got to sit down and look in depth at the Core Book.
I am very disappointed frankly.
Mostly with the lack of Mangamund information.
-Where is the discussion of cultural Magnamund?
-Different ethnic groups of humans, where they are, composition...i.e. the
Nael, Lastlanders, Vassa, etc.
-Day to day living in Magnamund, i.e. days of the week, calendars, seasons, moon phases, etc?
-The timeline seems to gloss over a lot of detail about the development
and migration of humankind across Magnamund.
-General lack of historical information.

I guess I was hoping for was an indepth look at the world of Magnamund so you could run an ongoing campaign. But the information about the world seems so sparse and has very little substance to it.
What about everyone else? What do you think?
Am I alone in major disappointment about this book's coverage of Magnamund?

 

[Confused Wolf]

As both parts of Magnamund, the northern and the southern continent, were to be described in the core book (I think Joe Dever wanted it that way) there simply was not enough space to go into details, I guess.

But imo it was a mistake that Mongoose chose as the first two supplements The Darklands (not exactly a place PCs will visit often) and Magic of Magnamund instead of something with decent setting information. In that regard I'm a bit disappointed, even though I think that the material published so far is very good.

 

[Kheti sa-menik]

But imo it was a mistake that Mongoose chose as the first two supplements The Darklands (not exactly a place PCs will visit often) and Magic of Magnamund instead of something with decent setting information. In that regard I'm a bit disappointed, even though I think that the material published so far is very good.

Well....I made pretty clear my thoughts earlier in the thread on the new ruleset for the game but that's another issue.
Why not have made a set of core rules and then a completely different Gazeteer with the proper amount of Magnamund information?
Imagine a book the size of the Core Book but the whole thing was ABOUT the world.
We need an indepth look at this fantastic world to play in, not just a poorly slapped together hundred or so pages.

This was going to be a shining star for me in terms of 2005 gaming purchases....but instead, all I got was shoddy and thin work.
This kind of puts me off Mongoose products.
I have had a lot of bad "third party" D20 purchases from various companies but I heard Mongoose was different.

I guess I expected too much quantity and too much quality.

 

[Confused Wolf]

Well....I made pretty clear my thoughts earlier in the thread on the new ruleset for the game but that's another issue.

I know. Remember that my estimation of the rules/setting ratio was more careful than those made by other posters (and I was talking about just the core book in that context).

Why not have made a set of core rules and then a completely different Gazeteer with the proper amount of Magnamund information?
Imagine a book the size of the Core Book but the whole thing was ABOUT the world.
We need an indepth look at this fantastic world to play in, not just a poorly slapped together hundred or so pages.

I don't think that "poorly slapped together" is a fair characterization. The gazetteer is not bad, just too short (because of lack of of space). And imo it is enough for a start, so that the core book is a "complete" game - that is one of the things I liked about it. (Not like some other games were you first have to buy two or three books before you can start playing).

I'm sorry you were disappointed. But I think you are over-reacting a bit here. I you cool down and take a deeper look you'll see that there is still much info useful for you in the book.

 

[Kheti sa-menik]

Because I want a thorough treatment of the campaign world, my expectations were too high?

If it meant we'd get a decent book ABOUT Magnamund, than I'd be willing to buy two-three books.
I am going to point to two world books here that are examples....The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and the Greyhawk Gazetteer. (Whatever we may think about the worlds themselves set aside for a moment)
These two books present Faerun and GH as complete worlds. It goes into great depth about racial identity, how the average person lives, history of human migration, a very thorough history. There's lunar cycles, days and months, a calendar. How nations interact with one another.

This kind of detail is what I expected..what I was hoping for.
The promise that Mongoose made that I was looking to be fulfilled.

 

[Confused Wolf]

I think your expectations of the core book (which is a combination of a rules/setting book - as you knew before) were and are too high.

But you are right that Mongoose should (rather sooner than later) present more and in-depth setting info.

Still, I urge you to give the core book a chance - there is a lot of information (not only in the gazetteer section but in the other parts, too) that will be very useful for a Magnamund campaign.

 

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of the world of Magnamund in the book outside of the World chapter. For example, each class has a lot of information of the organisation and race that the class belongs to.

I think Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are unfair comparisons. Each of these books is devoted purely to the world and requires 3 other hardbacks to provide the rules. Lone Wolf is the equivalent of all 4 books in one. Taking this limitation into consideration, Lone Wolf does an exceptional job of balancing the items and presenting a lot of the world of Magnamund.

The supplements so far have also done a good job of expanding the presentation of the world.

It sounds to me like your beef is more to do with LW being OGL.