Quick Question - Class B Shipyard assembling starships

[phavoc]

Class B Starports:

To earn the status of a Class B Starport, a facility must provide an (effectively) unlimited supply of refined fuel. It will also contain a shipyard, capable of producing Spacecraft and/or Small Craft.
This, in turn, provides excellent repair facilities for Spacecraft and Small craft: damaged systems, Hull damage and Structural damage may all be repaired. Capital Ships are catered for to a lesser degree, with repairs possible to the Hull and replacement ships systems being shipped in as and when they are required.

And Class C"

A typical Class C port has 50 or more landing pads, a couple of which will be large enough to handle ships as big as 5,000 displacement tons. Most pads will provide a hanger and on
worlds with hostile atmospheres these will be sealed and equipped with an airlock allowing safe egress for both ships and crew. A runway for non-VTOL craft will be present if there
is an atmosphere.

Approximately half of Class C Starports include a Highport. These tend to be little more than refuelling and repair stations, with docking platforms allowing shuttle transfers to and from
the planet below. A Highport in this class may be able to berth relatively small capital ships but this is unusual. A more popular alternative is the provision of tanker ships – essentially large
fuel tanks that can dock with a waiting ship and refuel it (see page 109 for more on tanker ships).

 

[Hans Rancke]

Thanks for the quotes.

So a Class B starport can make starships unless it has a highport? But if it has a highport, it can only make spaceboats?

An interesting interpretation.


Hans

 

[phavoc]

It actually has much more information on each class of starport, but I didn't excerpt all of it, just the info regarding high ports.

 

[Halfbat]

...meanwhile, back on the OP... :wink:

Given the disparity between the two systems (and the unknown TL could change this), it could be that the A system is deliberately constraining the export of J-drives, forcing the B system to build starships without the J-drives (e.g., just spaceships!) that are then tugged to the A system where the drives are finally fitted. It would be a way for the smaller population to earn income and exercise control over the bigger world and also explain why the bigger world doesn't yet have any way of fitting J-drives.

It only works if the TLs justify it, of course.

A thought.

 

[Ishmael]

Looking at the Spinward Marches*, I have noted a world, Jae Tellona/Rhylanor, with a type "A" starport, but that is only a tech 8.

Given that jump drives cannot be manufactured at that tech level, this implies that the jump drives it installs in starships ( which it can build by virtue of its starport rating ), are all imported. Therefore, building ships with imported jump drives is canon. The rest of the ship is the same as for an equivalent non-jump ship, is it not?
If not, then what is the magic difference that makes them different, aside from the jump drive machinery being installed, that only a type "A" port can do, yet a type "B" port cannot? It has nothing to do with tech level at this point.

Personnally, I think starport type should be purely a measure of shipping capacity ( Mongoose's 2d6-7+pop for the starport table is a good thing ), and let tech level determine what the world can build.


* an older map, possibly from MT days.....

 

[Hans Rancke]

If not, then what is the magic difference that makes them different, aside from the jump drive machinery being installed, that only a type "A" port can do, yet a type "B" port cannot? It has nothing to do with tech level at this point.

Well, the bits that phavoc quoted shows that MGT:Starports has retconned previously published material, so this is no longer true, but as I explained before, the difference between a Class A and a Class B starport isn't that the class A can produce starships and the class B can not. The difference is that a Class A does produces starship and a Class B does not.

Potential capablility is a function of tech level. Starport class describes actual practice. The Scouts look at the starport and check if it builds boats but not ships. If it does, it gets a class B label. No magic.

Note that there's a rule in CT:High Guard to the effect that a planetary navy can procure ships produced on its world regardless of starport class, provided it has the requisite tech level. This means that even worlds with Class E starports (and sufficient tech level) are able to build starships; they just don't offer that service commercially. If they did, they'd get a class A rating.

Personnally, I think starport type should be purely a measure of shipping capacity ( Mongoose's 2d6-7+pop for the starport table is a good thing ), and let tech level determine what the world can build.

I agree that capacity should be included in starport class, though I'd like to do it by adding a digit to the starport letter: 'A5-567865-C' for example.

In any case, I think class B starports should be retconned to provide fuel, repairs, and annual maintenance, but no yards, ship- OR boat-. Class A would be those with commercial shipyards.


Hans

 

[Ishmael]

Well, the bits that phavoc quoted shows that MGT:Starports has retconned previously published material, so this is no longer true, but as I explained before, the difference between a Class A and a Class B starport isn't that the class A can produce starships and the class B can not. The difference is that a Class A does produces starship and a Class B does not.

Potential capablility is a function of tech level. Starport class describes actual practice. The Scouts look at the starport and check if it builds boats but not ships. If it does, it gets a class B label. No magic.

Note that there's a rule in CT:High Guard to the effect that a planetary navy can procure ships produced on its world regardless of starport class, provided it has the requisite tech level. This means that even worlds with Class E starports (and sufficient tech level) are able to build starships; they just don't offer that service commercially. If they did, they'd get a class A rating.

Then I see nothing wrong with the OP's idea; the class B port can build ships with imported drives if they wish.
Perhaps they hadn't begun such practices the last time the scouts did a survey, maybe the scouts just didn't see anything except boats being built, maybe the surveyor took a bribe to give an incorrect rating or maybe the scouts just got it wrong...they are fallible.

As far as the CT;HG rule, that potentially makes any world be capable of producing, repairing and servicing ships as per a starport 'A', they just choose, for now, to only do so with non-commercial ships, but could do others if need be. And its a pointer that starport types don't need to be determined by production of shipyards, but only by the volume of traffic they can handle.

 

[far-trader]

Looking at the Spinward Marches*, I have noted a world, Jae Tellona/Rhylanor, with a type "A" starport, but that is only a tech 8.

Oh, I don't think it's the only one

Two thoughts off the top of my head:

The TL is wrong. Random results needed to be vetted and corrected. They weren't. Retcon the TL to 9. Problem solved.

They build TL8 Starships ...no, hang with me here a second. Who says the definition of a Starship (a ship that travels between stars) has to be exclusively a ship with a Jump drive? Maybe they produce an alternative stardrive. Maybe they build STL generational or sleeper ships for cheap colony projects. Easily done at TL8 and it is technically a Starship.

Personnally, I think starport type should be purely a measure of shipping capacity ( Mongoose's 2d6-7+pop for the starport table is a good thing ), and let tech level determine what the world can build.

Not a hard sell needed here So much more sensible and eliminates a LOT of problems/issues*... but. It's not the way the rules are written so it's ATU (not bad, just not OTU) which limits compatibility with published material (not an issue for some of course).

* probably at the cost of spawing others though

EDIT: Addendum...

...also, Re: rust's post above, I think all he was saying was there is another level of distinction between Class A and Class B Starports. I don't think he was implying that Class B Starports under the Mgt Starport rules can or will build Starships. Or maybe he was. I'm still confused on exactly what he was saying to the topic.

 

[phavoc]

The TL of a world with a starport does not necessarily have to be correlated with the class of the starport.

Remember, starports are Imperial facilities, and therefore they aren't tied specifically to the planet they are on. Their class depends on the space traffic they service. You could have a TL 3 world on a primary jump route with a Class A starport.

The books don't get detailed into the nitty-gritty of economics (like it makes more economic sense to build starships and high tech components on a world that has the appropriate TL). However, as we've seen here in our own timeline, you have advanced manufacturing facilities in countries that import the bulk of their goods (Malaysia makes a ton of chips, but the factories are located there for non-tech reasons).

 

[AndrewW]

The TL is wrong. Random results needed to be vetted and corrected. They weren't. Retcon the TL to 9. Problem solved.

They build TL8 Starships ...no, hang with me here a second. Who says the definition of a Starship (a ship that travels between stars) has to be exclusively a ship with a Jump drive? Maybe they produce an alternative stardrive. Maybe they build STL generational or sleeper ships for cheap colony projects. Easily done at TL8 and it is technically a Starship.

You could also build a jump drive at TL-1.

 

[far-trader]

The TL is wrong. Random results needed to be vetted and corrected. They weren't. Retcon the TL to 9. Problem solved.

They build TL8 Starships ...no, hang with me here a second. Who says the definition of a Starship (a ship that travels between stars) has to be exclusively a ship with a Jump drive? Maybe they produce an alternative stardrive. Maybe they build STL generational or sleeper ships for cheap colony projects. Easily done at TL8 and it is technically a Starship.

You could also build a jump drive at TL-1.

:?: :?: :?:

 

[far-trader]

The TL of a world with a starport does not necessarily have to be correlated with the class of the starport.

It doesn't?

You could have a TL 3 world on a primary jump route with a Class A starport.

Could it?

Are you talking Core Rules* or Starports supplement?

* I imagine you're out to lunch in that case, but I'm off to check the book real quick before I nod off, back in a few... If you are talking Starports... well, that's... :| :?

(Malaysia makes a ton of chips, but the factories are located there for non-tech reasons).

I would say that makes Malaysia of the TL required for said manufacture if that's the case. It's not like they're TL 3 and making them out of hammered bronze over coal furnaces or some such silliness

 

[far-trader]

OK, I've had a look at the Core Rules...

The TL of a world with a starport does not necessarily have to be correlated with the class of the starport.

Wrong. The TL of a world with a starport IS MOST CERTAINLY correlated with the class of starport. In fact the starport is the single biggest factor in the TL of a world with a starport. And the differences between the factors for the starport are significant.

You could have a TL 3 world on a primary jump route with a Class A starport.

Wrong again. Patently impossible under the rules. The lowest it could possibly be is TL 5 (and that's with a sucky gov code giving it a -2DM. It's far more likely the to be right around TL 9 in fact (1D6 + 6) even without any of the other positive DMs. There might be a few below TL 9 but even they will probably be at least TL 7 (which I can stretch my belief suspenders to excuse but would probably simply apply a minimum TL 9 in most cases... too many "Well, yep, we used to make them fancy starships here, heck we still can in a pinch, but since the layoffs, and factory closings, and the lanthanum mines played out... well, no we can't really make them anymore. I expect that really doesn't make this a Class A Starport no more does it?" type stories will snap my belief suspenders in most settings. Fortunately I don't see the generation rules producing too many of those.

 

[rust]

...also, Re: rust's post above, I think all he was saying was there is another level of distinction between Class A and Class B Starports.

Yep, the existence of a highport - no highport, no Class A.

 

[Hans Rancke]

...also, Re: rust's post above, I think all he was saying was there is another level of distinction between Class A and Class B Starports.

Yep, the existence of a highport - no highport, no Class A.

Which is a new one.


Hans

 

[Hans Rancke]

Then I see nothing wrong with the OP's idea; the class B port can build ships with imported drives if they wish.

Nothing whatsoever. I was just pointing out that evidently they did not want to, presumably because there was some reasonable impediment, most likely economic in nature. It can be done, but it would be cheaper to order one from the neighboring world and have it delivered.


Hans

 

[rust]

Which is a new one.

And a strange one. Attack a system with a Class A starport, destroy
the highport, usually the most vulnerable of all the important targets,
and the system is no longer able to build starships ... ? :shock:

 

[Hans Rancke]

Which is a new one.

And a strange one. Attack a system with a Class A starport, destroy the highport, usually the most vulnerable of all the important targets, and the system is no longer able to build starships ... ? :shock:

The argument (as I understood it) was that there are two ways for a starport that has all the other facilities of a Class A starport to get a Class B rating. One is to not build starships, the other is to not have a highport. So you could have a Class B starport that was building starships to the limit of its capacity; it just didn't have a highport.


Hans

 

[AndrewW]

The TL is wrong. Random results needed to be vetted and corrected. They weren't. Retcon the TL to 9. Problem solved.

They build TL8 Starships ...no, hang with me here a second. Who says the definition of a Starship (a ship that travels between stars) has to be exclusively a ship with a Jump drive? Maybe they produce an alternative stardrive. Maybe they build STL generational or sleeper ships for cheap colony projects. Easily done at TL8 and it is technically a Starship.

You could also build a jump drive at TL-1.

:?: :?: :?:

Build a prototype Jump-1 drive at TL8.

 

[Hopeless]

Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't that mean if the world's TL is less than 8 that if it has a class A starport its because another race or people have built it there and are using it rather than the locals?

A highport makes me think of Gundam 00 and that bean stalk space station of theirs, you shoot that down and god help everyone below! :shock:

A Highport would make sense say for example Fulacin from the classic or 1105 sourcebook for the spinward marches since it has tainted atmosphere but couldn't this be also explained that this system has a Space Base Alpha on one of it moons instead?

Just be careful if you store massive amounts of radioactive nuclear waste up there, you never know it might all go up and shoot your moon out of the solar system... :roll:

How about you describe what you think constitutes a Class A Starport so we can get a better handle on this?