Question about the Jump Drive options in HG on p. 43

[snrdg121408]

Evening once again,

The Stealth J-Drive has modifications that help reduce the re-entry signature from Jump Space to Real Space without, as far as I can find, any increase to either the displacement or cost. Which does not make sense when the Fast-Cycle J-Drive costs an additional 10% of the standard Jump Drive.

So have I missed the text or table data that shows the appropriate modifications to either or both the d-tons and cost of the Stealth Jump Drive?

 

[Sangrolu]

At the end of the paragraph in my PDF, it says:

"A stealth drive takes up no extra tonnage but costs ten times the amount of a standard jump drive."

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello once again Sangrolu,

You most certainly have been coming to my aid today, which I really do appreciate. I've got both the softcover and electronic, aka pdf, of HG. Unfortunately, my search of the e.HG book matched my success rate looking for specific topics on the Traveller forum. My score here is zero for 10.

Thanks again for providing me with the specific information.

At the end of the paragraph in my PDF, it says:

"A stealth drive takes up no extra tonnage but costs ten times the amount of a standard jump drive."

 

[Emperor Herdan]

At the end of the paragraph in my PDF, it says:

"A stealth drive takes up no extra tonnage but costs ten times the amount of a standard jump drive."

I've a comment about that...

Looking at the Traders and Gunboat book, the actual cost for a stealth jump drive is +50%, and not x10. This is seen on the criminal ship classes (i.e. more than 1 ship shows the 50% increase, not 10 fold)

How this confuses things more ! (smile)

Take care

E. Herdan

 

[snrdg121408]

Evening Emperor Herdan,

Thank you for referencing the Mongoose Traders and Gunboats book which has three designs using the Stealth Jump Drive. I purchased the e.books Scouts and Traders and Gunboats today. Scouts has two designs using the Stealth jump drive. All five designs clearly show that the stealth drive costs 50% more than a standard J-Drive.

Personally, I felt that the stealth drive cost being 10 times the standard was overkill, but to get my spreadsheet working I went with the number. The 50% increase seems a better fit.

Again thank you for the information.

At the end of the paragraph in my PDF, it says:

"A stealth drive takes up no extra tonnage but costs ten times the amount of a standard jump drive."

I've a comment about that...

Looking at the Traders and Gunboat book, the actual cost for a stealth jump drive is +50%, and not x10. This is seen on the criminal ship classes (i.e. more than 1 ship shows the 50% increase, not 10 fold)

How this confuses things more ! (smile)

Take care

E. Herdan

 

[Mawdrigen]

Thank goodness.. I thought I was going to have to recost all of the Shipping Raiders I've been doing for my players!

 

[BP]

Thanks for this post - somehow I read the fast-cycle, but never the stealth version!

And glad to know other sources indicate 50% cost markup instead of the 10x figure (that is just downright insane).

Of course, that raises the question of whether the two can be combined (i.e. stealth might be mutually exclusive from fast-cycle). Also, there could have been some consideration of system Law Level/Population/Starport impacts (as a stealth drive could endanger navigation or annoy militant systems).

This is perhaps an example of a cute idea poorly thought out in terms of game mechanics. Was this borrowed from a non-CT Traveller incarnation?

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello Mawdrigen,

I'd recommend making a note the stealth jump drive design cost is based on the prices shown in Traders and Gunboats and not in the HG pdf. Oh, great now I'm going to have to strengthen my sensor platforms to detect the bloody raiders somebody is going tosteal from you.;-)

Thank goodness.. I thought I was going to have to recost all of the Shipping Raiders I've been doing for my players!

 

[snrdg121408]

Evening BP,

Thank you for the comments and I'm glad the post has been helpful to another forum member.

The Stingray 200 d-ton XLC5 Express Boat on Scouts p. 81 shows that both the Stealth Drive and Rapid/Fast Cycle Drive options can both be added a standard jump drive.

My thinking is that the military requested the development of the stealth drive to aid in dropping in covert teams into enemy held territory. Heck, having a stealthed jump drive raider could really cause havoc behind enemy lines. Of course criminal groups could also use the drive for their operations too.

I don't recall any of the other Traveller variants having a stealth jump drive. Unfortunately, my memory is not as good as it was 10 or 15 years age either. Uh, what are we talking about here?;-)

I've not really checked out the rules for detection but from my reading the stealth drive has a similiar affect that the stealth fighter and bomber have on radar detection today. A super good operator might detect them at normal ranges. The DMs shown on HG p. 43 appear okay to me. Of course I haven't played them so I could be out to lunch.

Again thanks for adding to the thread on this topic.

Thanks for this post - somehow I read the fast-cycle, but never the stealth version!

And glad to know other sources indicate 50% cost markup instead of the 10x figure (that is just downright insane).

Of course, that raises the question of whether the two can be combined (i.e. stealth might be mutually exclusive from fast-cycle). Also, there could have been some consideration of system Law Level/Population/Starport impacts (as a stealth drive could endanger navigation or annoy militant systems).

This is perhaps an example of a cute idea poorly thought out in terms of game mechanics. Was this borrowed from a non-CT Traveller incarnation?

 

[BP]

...The Stingray 200 d-ton XLC5 Express Boat on Scouts p. 81 shows that both the Stealth Drive and Rapid/Fast Cycle Drive options can both be added a standard jump drive.

Thanks again - I don't have Scouts yet - and this helps with a current design I am working on (specifically a covert ops support vessel that is also built for speed).

I wonder if the PDFs allow for commenting (I hate to deface books) - as I'd like to make errata style notes for clarifications like this... (File|Properties, Security tab, Commenting field would indicate allowed or not allowed in Windows Acrobat Reader).

I have HG, but have thought about buying the PDF to print it in a Digest sized format (I assume Printing is allowed in the same Security tab).

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello BP,

Glad to be of some help.

The sad thing about looking at Scouts is that I had to go back and revamp the main and auxiliary Jump Drives. My original understanding is that the two options were separate drives not add-on features.

I don't think you can edit the pdf copy of the books I'd recommend asking the publisher. Yes printing is allowed.

Emperor Herdan mentioned Traders and Gunboats so I went to DriveThruRPG which showed both items and I picked them up. The price is a little less than a paper or hard copy of the books, not to mention one can download them immediately.

...The Stingray 200 d-ton XLC5 Express Boat on Scouts p. 81 shows that both the Stealth Drive and Rapid/Fast Cycle Drive options can be added to a standard jump drive.

Thanks again - I don't have Scouts yet - and this helps with a current design I am working on (specifically a covert ops support vessel that is also built for speed).

I wonder if the PDFs allow for commenting (I hate to deface books) - as I'd like to make errata style notes for clarifications like this... (File|Properties, Security tab, Commenting field would indicate allowed or not allowed in Windows Acrobat Reader).

I have HG, but have thought about buying the PDF to print it in a Digest sized format (I assume Printing is allowed in the same Security tab).

 

[BP]

Hey thanks - printing allowed is all I really need!

Foxit allows commenting (this is not really editing the document, so much as adding highlights and notes - the free version I believe adds watermark when printing).

Adobe Acrobat (free reader) allows commenting only if publisher has remembered to allow that feature. This is not the same as copying/editing content - its just a way to add notes. Very useful in collaborations/feedback as well. Unfortunately most PDF writers (Adobes specifically) set Commenting to Not Allowed by default, and most publishers wouldn't know they could turn it on.

 

[snrdg121408]

Evening BP,

Glad to be of service concerning the pdf books.

The pdf versions also have a watermark when pages are printed. I've got at least 1 pdf book that I recall you can make comments on. Unfortunately, I don't remember which book.

Have a good one.

 

[brionl]

OK, I just checked the permissions on my Scouts pdf, and while you can copy text, and extract pages, you can't put comments in. Seems a bit bass-ackwards to me.

 

[atpollard]

OK, I just checked the permissions on my Scouts pdf, and while you can copy text, and extract pages, you can't put comments in. Seems a bit bass-ackwards to me.

Can you add comments to an extracted page?
Can you insert and delete pages?
(If you see where that line of thought is heading).

 

[Mithras]

I've recently done same, converting the 400 ton Subsidized Merchant, much as the USAF converted Hercules to create the Combat Talon special ops support aircraft. Now I want electronic warfare suitesthat take upspace, so I can create dedicated EW platforms like the Prowler and EC-135 .

Thanks again - I don't have Scouts yet - and this helps with a current design I am working on (specifically a covert ops support vessel that is also built for speed).

 

[BP]

OK, I just checked the permissions on my Scouts pdf, and while you can copy text, and extract pages, you can't put comments in. Seems a bit bass-ackwards to me.

Can you add comments to an extracted page?
Can you insert and delete pages?
(If you see where that line of thought is heading).

Actually - not sure where you are heading... :? ...but I think it is down the wrong path

As brionl wrote that you can copy/extract text you can do whatever you want with it - comment, re-arrange, insert/delete.

The comment feature does not let you do this.

It is not a question of the security of the document (actually comments contain a certain amount of trackable info), rather in collaborative (two-way) settings it keeps people from commenting when such is not desired. Unfortunately, it did not exist in the earlier versions of the PDF format and is off by default in most of the PDF writers. It must be intentionally - manually allowed.

 

[BP]

I've recently done same, converting the 400 ton Subsidized Merchant, much as the USAF converted Hercules to create the Combat Talon special ops support aircraft. Now I want electronic warfare suitesthat take upspace, so I can create dedicated EW platforms like the Prowler and EC-135 .

[Have you been remotely accessing my files again? :shock: ]

Sounds like you enjoy specialized spacecraft and the challenge... 8)

For your EW don't forget to think in terms of Naval assests - specifically towed array and sonar bouys... (AEGIS cruisers...)

I'm thinking lots of drones (for deploying 'nets') - and they would need to be high-g or maybe deployable from missile bays. And there would need to be no Jump drive (use jump tenders for interstellar missions) - but perhaps longer on station times would dictate more fuel. Have Fun!

 

[Mithras]

Thanks BP, I'd not thought of some of those options, its trying to fill out the hull that is the problem.

On the 'Combat Talon' I doubled all fuel tankage for increased range, included bunks for a platoon of SF types, a 30 ton drive-on vehicle hanger for their vehicles, sandcasters fitted with chaff, and a custom-built cloaking emitter (this was before I'd picked up HG, this took up 60 tons, cost a bomb and could provide EM protection for a craft of 600 tons or less).

I'll consider drones as a method of deploying 'buoys' for EW work.

 

[BP]

Yeah - I had that problem myself..

You could also split the ship into several parts to make a bigger antenna...
I was thinking custom jump drives for micro-jumps only and recombine for interstellar jump (thought of it, but never made the design).