Q on money

vitalis6969

Mongoose
On page 77 it says that As a rule of thumb, you can pay your characters about 1k to 2k per ton of cargo space available to them on a ship per two weeks of work.

Is this per character or as a whole?

Or do you guys go by something different?

-V

p.s. And no, this is not for trading, my players will probably never trade, ever, lol. This is for jobs and work.
 
If the characters own a ship, but do not trade, I would give them just
enough income to cover the ship's average monthly expenses (life sup-
port, fuel, maintenance ...) plus monthly wages according to their crew
positions - in other words, ignore the expenses of the ship and pay the
characters monthly wages.
 
I imagine that's total, and based on standard cargo rates.

But we're talking patrons and it's supposed to be a premium so I'd presume the high end of the scale to cover expenses. Rating it on cargo is too simplistic for me though. It varies too much from ship to ship and group to group. Compare a Scout ship, Free-Trader, and Fat-Trader for example.

I'd just go with the preceding Cr5000 per person per two weeks plus all expenses covered (mortgage, fuel, life support, wages, etc. etc.) for as long as the patron is calling the shots. And let the players play the "pad the expense bill" game. They could always ask for more for hazardous duty or a bonus for certain completion parameters.
 
Yeah, going to have to really work their butts off. They are mercs, and the ship bills total 171k per month. heh... that is a lot of dough.

-V
 
Keep them hungry, but not starving, seems to be the intent of the rules/guidelines and a good way to go. Throw them the odd bit of beef (something they can't buy) with all the bones (enough creds for what they need) to make them feel lucky and spoiled. And let them dream (even drop rumours) of some ultimate ticket. Save it for the campaign wrap-up though as it'll probably be the end of that run. Though it may lead to an even bigger campaign. Have fun!
 
Hm, the custom ship I've just finished (but havent totalled monthly costs yet) has a 60 ton cargo space, thats 120,000 - 240,000 credits per month of work per character, at least 4 PCs (480-960k, nice bit of cash but its down to the ship costs what profits in there)...

I'll get back to this topic when I've totalled monthly costs, however looking through the Core book, mail delivery seems a good earner to do.
 
zero said:
Hm, the custom ship I've just finished (but havent totalled monthly costs yet) has a 60 ton cargo space, thats 120,000 - 240,000 credits per month of work per character, at least 4 PCs (480-960k, nice bit of cash but its down to the ship costs what profits in there)...

I'll get back to this topic when I've totalled monthly costs, however looking through the Core book, mail delivery seems a good earner to do.

A wise patron, therefore, should always offer the characters more
than they can get by trading. As a rule of thumb, this comes to
about 1,000 to 2,000 Credits per ton of cargo space available to
them on a ship, per two weeks of work.

Erm thats total not per character :D

A meg a month from the patron for 4 players is a little bit high, even for the wacky traveller economy, just think how much you could get with a subby and 200 tons of cargo :roll:
 
Depends on how the PC's want to play it. If you recall from the Firefly series, everybody got a cut when they did jobs, and sometimes everybody had to chip in when things were down and the Captain needed money. Even Jane!

So sometimes during lean times, everybody is going to take a cut in pay, or even forgo pay so the ship expenses can be maintained. They all need air and water and gravity (otherwise the soap floats outs da bowls).

God forbid that they actually get into a shooting match and have to replenish their ammo supplies.
 
Captain Jonah said:
zero said:
Hm, the custom ship I've just finished (but havent totalled monthly costs yet) has a 60 ton cargo space, thats 120,000 - 240,000 credits per month of work per character, at least 4 PCs (480-960k, nice bit of cash but its down to the ship costs what profits in there)...

I'll get back to this topic when I've totalled monthly costs, however looking through the Core book, mail delivery seems a good earner to do.

A wise patron, therefore, should always offer the characters more
than they can get by trading. As a rule of thumb, this comes to
about 1,000 to 2,000 Credits per ton of cargo space available to
them on a ship, per two weeks of work.

Erm thats total not per character :D

A meg a month from the patron for 4 players is a little bit high, even for the wacky traveller economy, just think how much you could get with a subby and 200 tons of cargo :roll:

27 tons of cargo space in the ship, about 130k per month in upkeep. 1 to 2k credits per month per ton of cargo doesn't work :wink:

-V
 
vitalis6969 said:
27 tons of cargo space in the ship, about 130k per month in upkeep. 1 to 2k credits per month per ton of cargo doesn't work :wink: -V

In reality, no sane bank would loan for a new Type A either. Unless, you put about 30+% down AND had excellent, relevant references.
 
DFW said:
In reality, no sane bank would loan for a new Type A either. Unless, you put about 30+% down AND had excellent, relevant references.

Hmm? Type A has excellent income to expense ratio. Even paying all crew positions (and in practice many operate with the crew as shareholders, not salaried employees):

Pilot, Engineer, Medic, Steward/Gunner, Navigator/Sensors = -Cr21,000 pm
Mortgage: -Cr3048 pm
Life Support: -Cr22,000 pm

5 High passengers x2 trips = Cr60,000 pm
10 low passengers x2 trips = Cr40,000 pm
80 tons cargo* x2 trips = Cr160,000 pm
(*High passengers take up 5 tons, allow 3 tons for other purposes)

That gives a monthly profit of about Cr214,000, or MCr2.5 per annum. Even without saving crew costs or speculative trade.

I fully agree that no bank is going to loan to anyone with a bad credit rating or of dubious character, but this is loaning to a business, not buying real estate. The bank is going to be looking at the business plan and profitability of the venture, and a Type A is an established cash cow design. The fact that it's only J-1 and thus hard to skip with does not hurt, but *honestly* who would bother to avoid paying 1.4% of the monthly profit? It's the paramilitary ships that they're going to be careful of.

Getting back to the OT, unless you're railroading the players into the scenario, you have to offer an attractive payoff. This does not have to be cash. If they're going to lose a potential of Cr200,000 profit for a month running errands somewhere, but are not actually cash strapped at the moment, perhaps some unusual gadget, or the personal thanks of the Duke of Regina, or a pardon from that unfortunate incident back on Terra might be the payoff. If the job is to transport something or someone from A to B, normal charter rates appropriate to the ship may be all they need (mark it up at 150% of their nominal income or something).

Edit: Err, to simply answer the original question, it's 1-2k per ton of cargo for the party as a whole. As my breakdown of the income/expense for a Type A above indicates, the issue is offering the *party* enough incentive to offset the *party's* normal costs. However, if the job doesn't involve disrupting the trading cycle or involve travel expenses (i.e. a side mission) it can be priced however you want - it's an additional income source.

If they're not trading, it's still the same principle. They are going to ignore most jobs that don't cover their costs and seek out ones that do, so design jobs to suit. If these turn out to be high renumeration ones, make the risks or difficulties involved match to suit :)

Edit2: Oops, I forgot to add in the actual mortgage cost, didn't I, which is Cr152,000 or so. Need more coffee. Still, that leaves an expected profit of around Cr61,000 per month, or Cr732,000 per annum. The bank has their cut, the crew have their wages and the shareholders have a tidy return. Type As remain highly profitable ships, especially with a little speculation and reduced crews run by shareholders and/or working passage dudes.
 
DFW said:
vitalis6969 said:
27 tons of cargo space in the ship, about 130k per month in upkeep. 1 to 2k credits per month per ton of cargo doesn't work :wink: -V

In reality, no sane bank would loan for a new Type A either. Unless, you put about 30+% down AND had excellent, relevant references.

I'm kinda at a loss here, what does this bank loan for a type A thingy have to do with this?

-V
 
DFW said:
vitalis6969 said:
I'm kinda at a loss here, what does this bank loan for a type A thingy have to do with this?

-V

Earnings per ton of cargo

Not really unless you are being purposely obtuse. Bank Loans and Type A were never mentioned in anything until you posted them.

Again, how are they relevant?

-V
 
vitalis6969 said:
Not really unless you are being purposely obtuse. Bank Loans and Type A were never mentioned in anything until you posted them.

Again, how are they relevant?

-V

Babble on bro :arrow:
 
DFW said:
vitalis6969 said:
Not really unless you are being purposely obtuse. Bank Loans and Type A were never mentioned in anything until you posted them.

Again, how are they relevant?

-V

Babble on bro :arrow:

That is what you are doing man... seriously. WTH are you talking about?

-V
 
vitalis6969 said:
Captain Jonah said:
zero said:
Hm, the custom ship I've just finished (but havent totalled monthly costs yet) has a 60 ton cargo space, thats 120,000 - 240,000 credits per month of work per character, at least 4 PCs (480-960k, nice bit of cash but its down to the ship costs what profits in there)...

I'll get back to this topic when I've totalled monthly costs, however looking through the Core book, mail delivery seems a good earner to do.

A wise patron, therefore, should always offer the characters more
than they can get by trading. As a rule of thumb, this comes to
about 1,000 to 2,000 Credits per ton of cargo space available to
them on a ship, per two weeks of work.

Erm thats total not per character :D

A meg a month from the patron for 4 players is a little bit high, even for the wacky traveller economy, just think how much you could get with a subby and 200 tons of cargo :roll:

27 tons of cargo space in the ship, about 130k per month in upkeep. 1 to 2k credits per month per ton of cargo doesn't work :wink:

-V

Well it does nearly, 2k x 27 tons x 2 = Kcr108.

Anyway what on earth are you doing trying to make money trading with a ship with 27 tons fo cargo on it, even the far trader can do better than that :D

Like a lot of sidebar things in MonT this one is, erm, a bit off. It makes no sense for hiring merc type ships or scouts. Hey you 4 we want to hire you and we will pay 2k per cargo ton per two weeks, just how much cargo does your scout ship carry :twisted:

Free Trader with 88 tons cargo at 2k per two weeks = Kcr352/month, mortgage Kcr150/month
Far Trader, 64 tons cargo, Kcr256/month, mortgage Kcr212/month.
Subby, 205 tons cargo, Kcr820/month, Mortgage Kcr404/month.

So we get hired for Kcr40 a month with a Far Trader or Kcr400 a month with a subby, I'll take the subby please :D
 
LOL... no, we're not running cargo in a ship with only 27 tons of cargo space, was just wondering on the quick math they had there. And yeah, it does start to work for a true cargo vessel.

This ship in question is a combat craft, so when trying to figure what to pay the players for their merc/sof jobs I was hoping that quick rule for paying that was in the sidebar would work. But it doesn't really unless they sell the combat craft that is useful in their merc/sof jobs and get a slow dumpy thin skinned trader, lol :lol:

-V
 
Mercenaries operate on a charter basis, pretty much. Basic doesn't really cover this - you probably want to refer to Mercenary for a few ideas, but at the end of the day the group has a minimum practical hiring cost based on their expenses, and the patrons they end up dealing with will (by definition) be looking for a group like them. Prepare a bunch of tickets, and include a couple of marginal ones (offering a little too less, or for jobs paying well but needing a group a little too bigger) and let the players debate it. You can always use the magician's force* to ensure your pre-prepared encounters happen regardless.

(*i.e. stage magician indicates two doves for an audience member to choose between. If they choose the correct one the magician says "with a word, you condemn this bird". If they choose the other one, the magician says "with a word, you spare this bird". Either way they always proceed to use the prepared bird, but with the illusion of choice. The RPG equivalent is to decouple the choices from the encounters. Don't railroad - their choices should have some effect, but *they* don't have to know they were always going to hit a Zhodani stealth scout jumping into the target planet...)
 
vitalis6969 said:
LOL... no, we're not running cargo in a ship with only 27 tons of cargo space, was just wondering on the quick math they had there. And yeah, it does start to work for a true cargo vessel.

This ship in question is a combat craft, so when trying to figure what to pay the players for their merc/sof jobs I was hoping that quick rule for paying that was in the sidebar would work. But it doesn't really unless they sell the combat craft that is useful in their merc/sof jobs and get a slow dumpy thin skinned trader, lol :lol:

-V

For a starmerc you need to charge enough to meet the running costs (life support, mortgage etc), expendables (fuel, missiles etc) Salary and then make a profit.

Don't bother with the patron hiring thing, it makes no sense for merc ops. Its more for hiring a free trader for a few weeks hunting alien artifacts or someother rich types hobby.

Oh and remember to cover combat repairs and possible salvage etc in your starmerc deals. A lot of this is covered in book 2 mercs but take it with a pinch of salt as the ticket system does throw out some odd values :D
 
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