Pure At Heart - Good And Evil In Traveller

[alex_greene]

Something raised in another post gave me pause to think about this.

There are some kinds of bad things Traveller does not discuss. Characters can quite happily engage in acts of petty theft, burglary, assault, aggravated assault with intent, arson, dangerous and reckless driving, grand theft auto, hijacking, piracy, smuggling and espionage. As a matter of fact, that pretty much sums up most Travellers' careers.

However, some crimes are not on most Travellers' career paths.

Slavery and human trafficking, particularly of women and children. Trafficking of data pertaining to the exploitation of the above.

Stalking, kidnapping (for ransom), serial murder, torture for pleasure. Hunting people for sport.

At least, I hope so anyway.

None of the Patron encounter types I have ever seen, in all the Traveller resources I have collected, have ever crossed that line. Which brings me to my question to all you forumites out there.

Do you guys see your characters as heroes, or as anti - heroes, or as pragmatic types who would gladly switch from the one to the other if the money got good, or as something else altogether? Would you have your characters drop your Patrons in the doodah like a shot, yet come running any time you hear of one of yours getting into trouble because you "never leave one of yours behind?"

In other words, how pure in heart, to coin a pulpy phrase borrowed from the Flash Gordon movie, are your characters?

 

[spinwardpirate]

Not very. But I think it depends on the setting. For instance, just recently we played a game (different system, different genre) set in the modern day. Every single one of us were playing with our current set of morals. We were very hesitant to do any bodily harm to anything, draw weapons, etc.

In contrast, the last campaign my group played (a completely different system, Weird Old West type setting), my character was completely opposite. He was the epitome of shoot first, and shoot those who ask questions.

 

[alex_greene]

Cool. I wouldn't expect much else from any Traveller character.

But where would your Jayne Cobb of a character who'd shoot a man in a fair fight, or if he's thinking of starting a fair fight, draw the line?

 

[Galadrion]

Mm... I've crossed most of those lines before... as the GM. And, I will admit, I was ready to allow the players to cross them as well, if they wanted... but by the time I introduced villains who would do such things, the players were well aware of my Roleplaying Golden Rule: What's good for the PCs is good for the NPCs, and vice versa. The things the players were willing to do to bring such evildoers to justice could just as easily be done to them if they crossed the line... and more than likely would, if they chose that life.

Many of my players started out wanting to be shadowy anti-hero types, and the part that surprised me was how many of them came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be nearly so much fun to be on the hunted side of things before they stepped over the line. Freelance paladins, even if on the gritty side of things? That's fun. Underworld monsters? Not nearly so much fun, if the opposition is played the way it would be in "real life."

 

[alex_greene]

One can quickly get tired of a life lived with one eye over the shoulder, fearing a drive-by from any angle - even from a passing Air/Raft from above. And if the villain(s) decide to frame characters who cross them, it's so much easier to do so if they have managed somehow to collect solid evidence of the player characters' past misdeeds for the authorities to find ...

 

[BP]

Hmmm... more 'big **** heros' I guess - or even more 'pure of heart'.

Run ins with the law were not uncommon - but more misunderstandings, setups and corruption. Violent confrontation was always against bad guys, or percieved bad guys. Otherwise (like with law) it was avoided.

Unlike Mal shooting and dumping the 'fed' agent when it came time to 'deal' - we would have tried to incapacitate/injure him and leave him alive, but unable to immediately pose a threat. Stun weapons and injections were popular, as was tying opponents up.

I think we played more like Han Solo - the less 'pure of heart' thing was all backstory - lot of talk, but when it came time for the real thing we stepped up to the plate and did what was 'right'.

 

[spinwardpirate]

I'd like to add that there are times when I've wondered how a Traveller game centered on the activities of the Ine Givar terrorists would go, or a game from the point of view of the Swordies. My games have always been played under the assumption that the 3I are the "good guys", but playing them as the baddies as some appeal.

 

[rust]

In other words, how pure in heart, to coin a pulpy phrase borrowed from the Flash Gordon movie, are your characters?

Not exactly "pure in heart", but usually quite clever.

In my settings the law enforcement agencies are about as efficient as they
are in the real world. For example, a character has a chance of 80 % to
get away with a minor theft, but only a 5 % chance to get away with se-
rious crimes like murder.

Therefore, if the players do not intend to remove their characters from the
campaign, they usually try to avoid any major "law enforcement entangle-
ments" and look for ways to solve problems within the framework permit-
ted by the local laws.

However, this is most probably just pragmatism, and has not much to do
with ethics. :wink:

 

[CosmicGamer]

I certainly wouldn't mind playing someone further to the ends of the spectrum but it can be hard to fit in with other player characters in the group if your morals are too far apart so usually my characters tend to fall in the middle. A character with a particular background is usually not pure good or bad. Something like a rogue who will only steal from those who can afford to lose it or a 4 lawman who believes that the ends justify the means.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

My games have delved into several of those areas in the past. Usually with the PCs as the "good guys". They might have considered themselves as mean, nasty pirates, but when confronted with a cargo hold full of enslaved women and children, they developed "hearts of gold" pretty quickly.

Spica's Career Book 2 even has a Slave career for character creation should you want to go there. Being an escaped slave could be a fun way to start a campaign.

 

[Klaus Kipling]

My current game is very dark. Crime and espionage are the back drops, but the game is about survival. The players are old friends, and in the past, have sometimes exceeded the capacity of my plots to handle pc nastiness, so this time, I thought I'd present them with some clear moral choices within the plot that would let them set the tone of darkness - choices that have consequences.

So they were happy to (ineptly) plan the murder of an innocent couple just to disappear them, but finally balked when they (eventually) eye-balled the pregnant wife, and took the order 'disappear', as in get them out of sight, literally, at some financial cost.

One of the players rescued a 'sex-slave' rather than just avoid the encounter, or take advantage, which the other player avoided by rolling snake-eyes while showing off and putting his back out. It was a test, both by me for where the moral level of the characters were, and in-game to help ingratiate with their bosses. The cost of the rescue meant the player was set up, and secretly filmed interrogating then executing an innocent PI, which, while not exactly happy about it, he had no real compunctions about doing. Also, he now has an adoptive 'daughter' to take care of (read: something he cares about I can take away, <evil laugh>).

So the players are 'bad men', but not evil so much, although there are nefarious factions that are. But at least one of them has a moral code, of sorts. The other is amiably amoral, and has so far managed not to kill any 'innocent', mostly by accident rather than by design.

However, I can do this probably because we're old friends, and that we've all been players vs a particularly evil ref/dm in the past, and in previous games I've run, both guys have 'stepped over the line' once or twice. One guy, nice chap tho he is in real life, and wouldn't hurt a fly, had a character so evil I had to take him off him as he had, quite literally, become a monster. And this was proper evil: all charm and guile, and while everyone's back is turned, he was stabbing women and children in the heart.

We know each other's levels, and in fact have mellowed and matured as well, so that 'darkness' or 'evil' is less about psycho swordsmen chopping up the cops than the limits and conditions that make people do the bad things they do.

Though I probably got that from The Wire...

 

[Epicenter]

Most Traveller characters (indeed, most RPG characters in general) are what I call "careful sociopaths" or "fearful sociopaths." In particular, players tend to be thieves and murderers. They're not rapists, child molesters, or slavers or anything else. Most players don't like to admit this, but tend to usually wander around the universe looking for a situation where they can kill and steal without anything catching on (anyone living that is) or where it's condoned by some government or higher power. Once they can find such a situation, it's time to rob tombs, carry off the silverware from churches, and gun down anyone who tries to stop them.

I think it's because most players at some point during weekly or daily life have people they'd like to kill or things they'd like to steal. It's an urge most people share, so it's okay to indulge such things in RPGs where killing is usually encouraged (or at worst, winked at). Not everyone has an urge to be a slaver, a rapist, or whatever, so players tend not to indulge in such things for fear of disapproval from the other players (and the GM) rather than any other factor.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I once ran a game of the Morrow Project. After playing Traveller for a while, I was afraid that the PCs would be amoral or worse.

The best way to get the PCs to do the right thing is to present them with something horrific that they will NOT stand for!

The pregnant wife is a good example.

I had the PCs come across a small village that was being attacked by a group of raiders. At first they were unwilling to get involved, but when they started hearing the screams of the raped women, they quickly changed their minds and came to the rescue. Once they had saved the rest of the villagers, they became involved with them and I was able to "gently" guide them into being the heroes of the storyline.

Another thing I like to do as a player if the group seems particularly imoral is to play devil's advocate and become a VERY good guy. The group dynamics can be fun in that kind of situation. Similar to when you have a thief and a Paladin in the same group in D&D (back in the day when Paladins had to be LG and Thieves had to be Neutral or Chaotic).

 

[Travellingdave]

My current game is a group of older players (who are also playing older characters). A couple of them liked to see themselves as, for lack a better term, "lawful neutral" and were focused on taking care of themselves and their crew. While they'd avoid unnecessary violence, they'd gladly skim the occasional credit off the megacorps or any Imperial resource they could tap.

Yet once play began, they quickly found themselves facing many opportunities to help others out along the lawless frontier of the Imperium. By the end of the first session, they'd helped a marginal colony avoid an ecological disaster and it just kept going from there. It is the frontier, so Imperial and local law enforcement is pretty thin, rather like the Old West where the guns on the scene make the rules and the law has to sort things out later. The games can get violent, but the PCs always try to make sure they're targeting the Bad Guys and that collateral damage is limited. At this point in the campaign, they've become the unsung heroes of District 268 (and are expanding their operations into Ergyn).

It's actually been rather amusing to watch them always plot to make themselves money and fame, yet constantly change their plans when faced with the choice of helping the innocent around them. Instead of riches, they now have friends and allies throughout the subsector and dozens of places where they will never have to pay for a drink or a place to dock.

It's been one of the most satisfying campaigns I've run in a while.

 

[Klaus Kipling]

It's an urge most people share, so it's okay to indulge such things in RPGs where killing is usually encouraged (or at worst, winked at).

That's why I exclusively drive on the pavement/sidewalk in Liberty City.

There's another factor we refs can use to mitigate the slaughter: professionalism. Pros don't make a mess. Only pros get the work...

Then again, desperation = fun. I once shamelessly ripped off Consider Phlebas, running the bit from when Horza (now my players, in fact, the same ones as in my earlier post) was picked up by the CAT, thru the fight under the hovercraft to the maniacal (with casualties numbering in their hundreds) escape from the orbital.

Query: in any kind of game, not just Traveller, have you ever had your players tortured? As in thumbscrews, eyes gouged out, etc etc.

 

[rust]

Query: in any kind of game, not just Traveller, have you ever had your players tortured?

No, not even in our quite dark Harnmaster campaign. Torture was a part
of some characters' history, but it never happened during the actual ga-
me.

Like rape and other "bad stuff that happens" (e.g. guess where all those
half-orcs in fantasy worlds come from ...), torture sometimes was a lo-
gical part of the setting, but the players strictly refused to accept it as
something to be described in detail or played out.

 

[Baron Sidur Haski]

IMTU, whic is based on the otu pretty closely, The solomani are true Human Supremacists, as in they have purged most of the non-human races from the Solomani Sphere. Their society is a lot like 1984 meets the Third Reich meets Stalin in a bad mood. For example, The Vegans in my timeline have been displaced out towards Spica and beyond, towards hiver space. Any trading that goes on with Alien cultures happens along the frontiers, and is practically done by passing goods through a slot.

Aslan are fierce warriors and are prone to a lot of infighting between clans.

The Third Imperium is the "safest" government, but they still have no problem exploiting planets if they see an in.

The Vargr are pretty much as written, except there are several sub-species, some of which are nasty, a lot like gnolls or something. Very feral.

Hivers work on different sets of moral and emotional levels, and they sometimes come off as good and jocular, or totally rotten and dispicable, depending on what they want.

K'Kree are Slavers, quite brutal, and have no trouble at all with indiscriminately killing enemies, especially meat eating ones.

As far as character conduct has gone, there has been three tiers to the game, one is Pirates, who can be quite amoral and nasty if they need to be, but still live by a code of ethics of a sort, in order to maintain discipline an order on the ships. Some have been good guys left with no choice but to hitch a ride with the bad guys, but even in being bad, the Pirates are sort of Robin Hood types, fending off all of the other major governments.

The second tier is a crew of a solomani System Defense Carrier, which is a sort of game that runs a bit like Battlestar Galactica as written by George Orwell. All of the crew and players have been raised from birth to believe that anything non-human is a monster, and they take this with them out into independent space, along with heavy doses of state propoganda.

The third tier are the agents, that work for an independent organization that engages in espionnage. They have just started, but soon they know that eventually a mission will come up that requires for a target to be assassinated, or they have to steal tech, or sabotage something. It's part of the job.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

It's actually been rather amusing to watch them always plot to make themselves money and fame, yet constantly change their plans when faced with the choice of helping the innocent around them. Instead of riches, they now have friends and allies throughout the subsector and dozens of places where they will never have to pay for a drink or a place to dock.

It's been one of the most satisfying campaigns I've run in a while.

This is the type of campaign I would hope to run, and/or play in. Where the rewards are the fact that you helped, the players stood up and were counted. And where the players benifit becuase they helped. If a brocker has freight to ship and it's no skin off his nose who ships it, then it goes to the players because they gave Jacob a ride to his mothers house in their air-raft when they didn't need to, or becuase they saves the town from flooding, or etc. etc. etc.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[rust]

This is the type of campaign I would hope to run, and/or play in. Where the rewards are the fact that you helped, the players stood up and were counted. And where the players benifit becuase they helped.

This is one reason why we replaced the usually inherited SOC with a fle-
xible INF (Influence): Whenever the characters do something that helps
the colony world they are coming from, their Influence increases, and
whenever they do something egotistical that harms the colony's inter-
ests, their Influence decreases. So their standing among their fellow co-
lonists (and their readyness to help the characters, etc.) depends on
the characters' willingness to do something for the colony instead of for
themselves.

 

[Charakan]

Query: in any kind of game, not just Traveller, have you ever had your players tortured? As in thumbscrews, eyes gouged out, etc etc.

In my current game (I run a one on one at the moment) the character, a corporate espionage specialist was contracted to break into a SuSAG research facility on Carse in the Spinward Marches. While their he found evidence of illegal Psi drug research. On the way out he was rendered unconcious by a guard and has been transported under chemical sedation to a SuSAG security facility. They have numerous chemical and technological means for extracting information, but as the chief interrogator put it he likes to "Do things the old fahioned way", and they were physically tortured. I wanted to prtray the guy as a sadist and use him as a recurring villain. The Player needed a reason to hate him even though they engage in morally dubious situations on a regular basis.