Psions?
- Thread starter barnest2
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alex_greene
Guest
And nuclear dampers, FTL, lasers, meson beams, teleportation devices, AI and grav have a plausible scientific basis?DFW said:
alex_greene said:
Lasers? LOL
The others are FAR more plausible than a human brain ever being able to teleport the body. There is ZERO chance of that EVER happening. Those others are just placeholders for future energy weapon systems.
Also, the inability of going FLT depends pretty much entirely on time being an actual thing rather than something we think we experience...
alex_greene
Guest
You know what I mean. I don't mean lasers being used to scan bar codes on goods in the supermarket. I mean the lasers your characters use to burn enemy ships out of the sky, and to plant great big holes in enemy soldiers on the ground.DFW said:
alex_greene
Guest
I can research the tech as much as you can, thank you very much.DFW said:
Now explain the technical plausibility of gravity plates and reactionless M-drives.
Hold on... I think the thing is, DFW was saying that teleportation is never, ever going to happen, not just using the brain...
Whereas... reaction less drives and FTL travel is... theoretically plausible at the very least... So I can see his point...
is that what you meant DFW?
Whereas... reaction less drives and FTL travel is... theoretically plausible at the very least... So I can see his point...
is that what you meant DFW?
alex_greene
Guest
Psions are a sore point for a certain, well, vociferous population of Traveller fandom, who are happy with FTL, but not with telepathy with its echoes of MK-ULTRA; who can accept the existence of hand held TL 18 disintegrators the size of a bar of hotel soap, but who frown upon Clairvoyance with its echoes of remote viewing experiments and The Men Who Stare At Goats; and who could probably tell you incredible stories of how their characters used grav belts to fly across the surface of a planet, but would laugh out loud if they heard of a character doing the same with Telekinesis, or using Awareness to rip a bank vault door off its hinges, or teleported from one room to the other in the blink of an eye.
We can't do those things. But then, we can't open up a Jump drive and drop by Vega either.
We can't do those things. But then, we can't open up a Jump drive and drop by Vega either.
barnest2 said:
Recent studies have proven that it is the effect of acceleration that slows motion at the atomic level (if you live on 2nd story rather than ground level you live shorter life span as you have less accel from gravity). This is the "time dilation effect" It really has nothing to do with time (which has never been measured or proven to actually exist) but with the slowing of motion all the way down to atomic level when a force vector is applied.
Thus, if you can negate experiencing the acceleration (inertial compensator's?) there is no "time" effect. Also, no time (just our perception) means no speed limit because no different time frames.
alex_greene said:
Sorry, the lasers have been public knowledge for a long time.
alex_greene said:
Well, when/if we discover the true natur of gravity we may well be able to manipulate that force. On the other hand, the brain hasn't the power/energy capability to EVER teleport the body, start fires, etc.
In my case, not at all, the furthest I even went was a kind of animal em-barnest2 said:
pathy between animal trainers and their dolphins.
As for "science fiction magic", the jury is still out on much of it. It may be
impossible according to our current understanding of physics, but this cur-
rent understanding of physics is in itself incomplete. To give an example,
we are still not sure whether gravity is transmitted by particles or is a pro-
perty of space, or somehow both.
So, where current science leaves me some kind of "escape hatch", I will
use it to justify "science fiction magic". But where current science is alrea-
dy rock solid and has been tested over and over again, I treat the door
as closed: No pigs with wings, no teleporting humans, sorry.
alex_greene
Guest
*puts line through this month's article for S&P*rust said:
alex_greene
Guest
See, the bad news about rejecting psions because "it isn't hard sf" is that some of the most famous and prolific authors of "hard sf," some of whom have shaped the course of SF over the last century and a bit, have included speculative fiction on such phenomena as telepathy, clairvoyance, teleportation, telekinesis and the talents and abilities collectively called Awareness.
Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, John Wyndham, Olaf Stapledon - they've all done it. Gene Roddenberry, Gerry Anderson, J Michael Straczynski, Russell T Davies - they've all featured psi talents pretty heavily.
And there have been authors of fantasy stories whose stories cleaved closer to "hard" sf than some sf authors.
The choice of whether or not to include psi in a game really depends on the individual and his personal tastes. It was good enough for Star Trek to allow Vulcans to have mind melds, so it's good enough for me.
Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, John Wyndham, Olaf Stapledon - they've all done it. Gene Roddenberry, Gerry Anderson, J Michael Straczynski, Russell T Davies - they've all featured psi talents pretty heavily.
And there have been authors of fantasy stories whose stories cleaved closer to "hard" sf than some sf authors.
The choice of whether or not to include psi in a game really depends on the individual and his personal tastes. It was good enough for Star Trek to allow Vulcans to have mind melds, so it's good enough for me.
I have no problem at all with this. As you wrote, it is a matter or choice,alex_greene said:
and I just prefer to choose otherwise.
I my view it mostly depends on the personal background. For example,
chemistry is my enemy, I know hardly more than chemistry does exist
and some people consider it important, so no implausible chemistry in a
science fiction setting can damage my suspension of disbelief. Human
biology is a vital part of my profession, so implausible biology in a scien-
ce fiction setting will jump out at me an ruin my suspension of disbelief.
Therefore, no low berths, no psionics (and if you really insist on those
winged pigs, I will just look the other way ...).
alex_greene
Guest
Mais bien sur. To each, their own.rust said:I have no problem at all with this. As you wrote, it is a matter or choice,alex_greene said:
and I just prefer to choose otherwise.
I like low-power psionics. One or two points, usually triggered by strange encounters and not revealed to the players until a plot-specific point. "How did I DO that?" is a big thing in my games.
Conversely, I try to keep tech levels average and finding a seller for anything higher than a TL9 weapon is difficult. Most of my games focus around character development and interesting scenarios, rather than fast combat or deadly missions, so this works well. (The first part of SotA where the players have no weapons whatsoever was a big hit.)
For full psionic characters and societies, it's not a flavour I really enjoy. One race works well in a smaller setting, but it seems really common in the 3I, so the "local flavour" gets watered out.
I can deal with all sorts of technology/science handwavium in my settings, but I'm an anthropologist and the unrealistic worlds in the 3I drive me positively batty.
Conversely, I try to keep tech levels average and finding a seller for anything higher than a TL9 weapon is difficult. Most of my games focus around character development and interesting scenarios, rather than fast combat or deadly missions, so this works well. (The first part of SotA where the players have no weapons whatsoever was a big hit.)
For full psionic characters and societies, it's not a flavour I really enjoy. One race works well in a smaller setting, but it seems really common in the 3I, so the "local flavour" gets watered out.
I can deal with all sorts of technology/science handwavium in my settings, but I'm an anthropologist and the unrealistic worlds in the 3I drive me positively batty.
