Psi-corps: explain them to me.

[locarno24]

After Matt took a well-aimed turbot to the face against the narn a couple of months ago, he made the closing comment:

Overall, I think my biggest mistake was one of approach. I went a bit dippy at the size of the battle, and loaded up on the big guns, almost to the exclusion of all else. I also treated the fleet as a souped up Earth Alliance, whereas the Psi Corps are a little more subtle than that.

Not taking enough lighter ships to successfully use the horrifically effective but boresighted slicer beam and G.O.D. cannons that formed his main fighting ships primary armament I understand, but the 'more subtle than that' reference is something I could do with having clarified.

Psi-Corps do look interesting, but - at least initially - they do strongly resemble Earth alliance. They have the 'Best of the Best' bonus, Psychic Crew advantages on smaller ships and self repair on larger, but many of their ships (aside from the mothership) do look superficially like EA vessels with better fighters.

(Hunter - Marathon, Shadow Omega/Nemesis - Omega/Warlock)

Essentially, how do you need to adapt your tactics to use Psi-Corps? How much use actually is Psychic Crew or the rather so-so Self Repair scores in real games (especially one-offs; I get that self repairing destroyers help in campaigns!)

 

[EDFDarkAngel1]

Having more subtlety than the EA isn't hard to do. They are as subtle as running across a hollow floor in concrete shoes to sneak up on someone.

Psi Corps removes other people's special actions, and they have ships that on, on average, weaker than EA, in terms of hull points. They have to play it with more finesse than just to go in a straight line and blast anything that moves.

Take the Warlock Advanced Destroyer for example. From the front/boresight, it is a terrifying ship. It has an extremely long range beam weapon for triple damage, and missile racks to discourage anyone with short range from coming any closer. However, it is a true destructive power when it is in the middle of an engagement when people are getting hit in all arcs by fairly powerful weaponry, and the attacks made in retaliation are getting eaten up by interceptors, high hull score, or the insane armor it has.

The Nemesis is a powerful ship, true, it's true fear is the very powerful boresight weapon. However, it cannot be in the middle of a firefight. Not nearly as well as the Warlock, a ship a full PL beneath it. It can repair itself, true, but it cannot repair crew loss. Its best use is to keep the enemy at range and try not to get hit too hard.

Dark Angel

 

[Greg Smith]

Similarly the hunter is fairly fragile, and lacks all-round fire but has lowish stealth. It isn't a ship to get in the middle of a brawl, it works better on the edge, maintaing as much distance as possible.

The mothership has a tremendous range beam, but it isn't a brawler - it is too fragile at hull 4. It should stay at the back and use its laser and stealth to the best of its ability.

 

[locarno24]

So essentially the psi-corps ships float on the edge of the battlefield whilst two points worth of classic EA 'brick outbuildings' from the regular fleet stay between them and the enemy, rather than the nemesis (or whatever) leading the charge.

Not so true for the shadow omega, though, which has a rather naff range on its main gun, and wishes to get up close and trade broadside-based slappage....that, I think, really is an EA ship away from home.

Hmm....shadowcloaks are nice, if only because a patrol level stealthed scout is always good. An annoyance ship, then.

 

[sidewinder]

It would have been nice if they had a stealth refit for campaigns, cause the stealth is pretty pathetic. 1 point higher would have been better for such weak hulled ships. The fighter carrier is almost worthless. Actually, it is worthless. Take a mothership instead. And I dont know what the reasoning behind the shadow omega is. They cut the range on the MSB in half. And I have yet to use the pshycic crew, other then the ability it gives the fighters. Range 8 is too short to be useful and still keep your ship alive. The only use I can see for it is if someone trys to board your ship you can try to cancel it out.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Shadow Omega doesn't get psychic crew...

 

[Sean-Khan]

The fighter carrier is almost worthless.

Couldn't it be used at least for low-cost jumppoint bombing? It's difficult, I know... Is there ways to improve chances for it, other than admiral?

Also, they are pretty cheap source of psychic crew, I think they might be best for preventing enemy ships from gaining good position or using boresight weapons.

Still beginner - just some thoughts.

 

[EDFDarkAngel1]

How is the fighter carrier worthless? Has anyone bothered to look at the Narn carrier? Now that's worthless...

Dark Angel

 

[Lord David the Denied]

It has poor weapons, low damage and hull and not enough fighters for its level. You can get twice as many fighters for the same cost by buying independant wings and you gain basically nothing for having the carrier on the table.

 

[Triggy]

It has poor weapons, low damage and hull and not enough fighters for its level. You can get twice as many fighters for the same cost by buying independant wings and you gain basically nothing for having the carrier on the table.

Ironically, the Fighter Carrier is probably OK, with the Black Omega being a little too good (as a dogfighter or anti-cap ship, it's very hard to actually kill making them real pains in the backside).

Of course, with the Psi Corps lacking a Patrol PL offensive option (other than EA allies), this makes the Fighter Carrier tempting only as the backup in low PL games, taking ships like a Chronos, Hermes or Olympus as the offence.

 

[Ripple]

My only concern is the use of low stealth. Low stealth is often no stealth. If stealth always failed on a '1' it would be alright, but as is getting a two reduction to the value is very easy with fighters, scouts and range eight. Often feels more like a penalty than an advantage. It works for ships that have big guns or a lot of maneuverability but no so much for the slow and undergunned.

I agree with the basic stratagy outlined above, you buy your own shadow omega or EA ships to rush in a do your fighting. The Hunter does what it can to run the outside of the enemy formation (2/45's will make it hard to stay out), and you buy shadowcloaks for your sinks. Mothership is something that can go spectacularly wrong vs anyone who depends on a lot of non-beam weapons, so deploy cautiously and expect to have to run back to it.

Ripple

 

[Da Boss]

ahh stealth - low or high is often suprisingly effective - and the last time I played (two seperate games) the fighter carrier was bloody annoying - kept hitting things and not being seen - the anything but a 1 syndrome!

still I agree it is a very difficult thing to balance as it is much less likely to work....................but when it does its effective.

 

[Greg Smith]

I kept telling Da Boss the fighter carrier was rubbish, then one was pratically invulnerable and suprisingly effective at damaging his ships.

 

[EDFDarkAngel1]

That's why my players stopped playing Minbari. It was getting frustrating having multiple ships firing at point blank range against a Sharlin... and missing.

Dark Angel

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Ironically, the Fighter Carrier is probably OK, with the Black Omega being a little too good (as a dogfighter or anti-cap ship, it's very hard to actually kill making them real pains in the backside).

It's worth noting however that Black Omega starfuries are still not worth as much as 2 standard Aurora starfuries.

 

[Ripple]

Yeah, it can be hard...the Sharlin at 5+ is either god or dead locally. You can't reduce it to less than a 2+ nowdays can you? Range, scout and previous hit (fighter hits vs a sharlin are also a bit weaker due to AAF)?

I just don't like the reduce to nothing at 1+, gets rid of that anything but a 1 syndrome real quick. With only 3+ stealth it happens a lot nowdays, in part due to fighters being worth taking in numbers (too fast for the carrier to avoid and gets the first hit in before a main battle ship, so no tough decisions to make) and the ship is too slow to avoid range eight a lot of the time.

Blacks may be tougher that Aurora's but preloaded on a ship that isn't really the choice your making. On their own they may be better due to psychic crew keeping them alive 50% of the time, no matter how many flights are against them. Okay 25% after the second loss if up against good fighters..but still...pretty damn resilient. Twice as good?...hard to say...but I'll definately want to try them out, if only for the save vs AF.

Ripple

 

[Greg Smith]

You can't reduce it to less than a 2+ nowdays can you? Range, scout and previous hit (fighter hits vs a sharlin are also a bit weaker due to AAF)?

1+ if you are using Shadows.

 

[katadder]

Ironically, the Fighter Carrier is probably OK, with the Black Omega being a little too good (as a dogfighter or anti-cap ship, it's very hard to actually kill making them real pains in the backside).

It's worth noting however that Black Omega starfuries are still not worth as much as 2 standard Aurora starfuries.

well takes 2 standard starfuries to equal its dogfighting ability. then even if the standard ones win theres a 50/50 chance the black omega will survive. so damn right its as good as 2, if not better.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Ironically, the Fighter Carrier is probably OK, with the Black Omega being a little too good (as a dogfighter or anti-cap ship, it's very hard to actually kill making them real pains in the backside).

It's worth noting however that Black Omega starfuries are still not worth as much as 2 standard Aurora starfuries.

well takes 2 standard starfuries to equal its dogfighting ability. then even if the standard ones win theres a 50/50 chance the black omega will survive. so damn right its as good as 2, if not better.

That is about their only (minor) edge. In return, they lose half of their firepower (due to there being half as many of them) and their dodge against antifighter weapons/tactics (the main balance for having half as many) doesn't work against all methods of killing fighters anyway. I would say that the comparison is close, but that the 2 Auroras are slightly better overall.

Now, the comparison between a Black Omega and a Shadowfury is much much worse. Overall a single Black Omega has approx. equivalent firepower to a shadowfury, and the extra point of dogfight is canceled out by the lack of psychic crew. This is before you take into account that the Shadowfury has no defences against antifighter either. Far from being worth twice as much as the Black Omega, the Shadowfury is actually worth less.

 

[locarno24]

Black omegas aren't that hot an assault fighter (due to lack of numbers) but they are a second-to-none as interceptors. Fortunately you can bring in EA thunderbolts (plus the ones drawn off Shadow Omegas) for assault duties!


Also - psychic crew may help you survive a dogfight but doesn't help you win one.


Hmmm......Trying to think of a fleet for the campaign weekend.

First idea was a pair of shadow omega destroyers for a fighting line, backed up by a mothership, a fighter carrier, and two shadowcloak scouts as 'back line' units, bringing 6 flights of black omegas to the party and some scouts to make up for the lack of a command ship.