Prohibited Items in Ship Searches

[Boneguard]

Well the local Forces could be deputized under Imperial law to take care of problem in the Spaceport.

Surely possible. As I indicated earlier, IMTU the Imperials and locals do work together and have some overlap.

My point is that in the rules as written, folks are free to do what they want in their own TU, the locals do already have jurisdiction of their airspace and even space out to a certain d limit. But according to some, they give this up due to some undetailed in the rules as written treaty or obligation to allow ships to pass through to the Imperial star port and now need more unwritten rules to give them back some of the rights when the star port and Imperial organizations in system are not sufficient to the task. All this to let them do what they should have already had the jurisdiction to do?

Again, feel free to do what you want IYTU. I'm just discussing things.

Not necessarely. You could have 'flight' corridor -with or without local patrol- that allow you to jump close to the system then borrow said corridor to the starport. Deviare from them and you're in trouble with local authority.

Two good real-life exemple are:
1) Plane flight corridor over countries;
2) St-Pierre & Miquelon.

St-Pierre & Miquelon is a French Archipeloes which is about 20-25Km (12-16miles) of the coast of Newfoundland Canada. Now to get there they would have to go through Canadian waters, which is a clear 'invasion' of Canadian water. So what had been done, is that the French and the Canadian negociated a 4 km wide corridor 200 Nautical mile long for passage and fishing.

 

[AndrewW]

A good example of a flight corridor would be that used by the West to bring supplies into West Berlin after the USSR closed other routes, the flight corridors where left open.

 

[CosmicGamer]

the French and the Canadian negociated a 4 km wide corridor 200 Nautical mile long for passage and fishing.

A good example of a flight corridor would be that used by the West to bring supplies into West Berlin after the USSR closed other routes, the flight corridors where left open.

So are you suggesting, for the Imperium in somebodys TU, that the Imperium individually negotiates a flight corridor to the star port for each and every system? The details, speed, "width" of the corridor, automated landing vs manual, perhaps inefficient route that takes ships away from certain populated areas or natural landmarks, and so on all possibly being unique to the demands of the local system?

What if they can't come to an agreement?

 

[F33D]

What if they can't come to an agreement?

That's why the 3I has Tigress class ships. :lol:

 

[CosmicGamer]

That's why the 3I has Tigress class ships. :lol:

Please explain.

 

[F33D]

That's why the 3I has Tigress class ships. :lol:

Please explain.

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Tigress_class

 

[rust]

So are you suggesting, for the Imperium in somebodys TU, that the Imperium individually negotiates a flight corridor to the star port for each and every system? The details, speed, "width" of the corridor, automated landing vs manual, perhaps inefficient route that takes ships away from certain populated areas or natural landmarks, and so on all possibly being unique to the demands of the local system?

Basically, yes, just like a state's government has to negotiate the
construction of a new highway with each and every community lo-
cated along its path. However, there will be standard rules applied
to the huge majority of all cases, with detailed negotiations only
necessary for the exceptional situations.

What if they can't come to an agreement?

An Imperial court will have to make a final decision based on Impe-
rial law.

 

[F33D]

What if they can't come to an agreement?

An Imperial court will have to make a final decision based on Impe-
rial law.

In the 3I that is usually just the subsector Duke.

 

[CosmicGamer]

What if they can't come to an agreement?

An Imperial court will have to make a final decision based on Imperial law.

In the 3I that is usually just the subsector Duke.

That's why the 3I has Tigress class ships. :lol:

Please explain.

Why involve the duke at all? I thought IYTU someone just says "we have Tigress class ships" and if that doesn't work they send via express boat an image of a ship, because somehow that explains it all?

 

[locarno24]

Ultimately, it comes back down to the original response.

An imperial world will not tell the imperium to go [anatomical impossibility] itself, because, as noted, they have Tigress-class dreadnoughts. This means that outside the jump limit is none of their business. Inside the 'startown' enclave, whether it's a highport or a downport or both, is equally none of their business. If they are needed, deputization can occur, but it would be by invitation (as per an embassy or a recognition of 'police in hot pursuit across a border')

The only grey area is a ship en route from the jump limit to a port. I assume that the Imperium's treaties, as I say, must include provision for travel between, but I doubt worlds would placidly accept 'none of your business' as a flat instruction when we're talking about a starship passing through what the imperium still acknowledges is your space.

If it's actually an imperial ship - X-boat, scout, navy, whatever, obviously it's equally legally immune to anything you might want to do. If it's a navy ship, it's immune at a far more practical level, too, as even a cruddy old Type T patrol cruiser could do extremely unpleasant things to the half-dozen badly armed shuttles that make up some backwater's security force.

If it's a merchant, then as noted, there must be some circumstances where you could stop, search and (if necessary) seize. The question becomes at what point do imperial treaties let you do this. For example, using the suggestion about flight corridors above, how much are you allowed to diverge from your approach vector before you're treated as suspicious? What happens if a ship is one that is wanted by local (but not imperial) authorities?

Ultimately, I assume it's going to come down to the precise wording of each treaty (which I suspect varies from world to world - some worlds, especially those with a navy base, are essentially direct imperial protectorates in terms of security whilst others have an office with one bloke from the Imperium stamping trade certificates and that's it) and how much 'reasonable provocation/justification' the local authority can claim.

 

[Jame Rowe]

...Of course, even where items may be legal, it doesn't mean they're unregulated. So, how thoroughly do your PCs document their licensing? Even a legal-to-own assault rifle, if the PCs haven't touched all the paperwork bases, can get them in trouble. It all depends on how evil you (as either the Referee or as the NPC official) are feeling.

This is great. My caveat is that it depends on whether or not they're leaving it on the ship, or if they're stupid enough to take it with 'em.

Something else to consider: just how does the authority figure choose to respond? Sure, he can look on the contraband item as a personal possession, and throw the book at the individual owner... but what if he decides to look on the matter as smuggling? Real-world smugglers, when caught, are often looking at not only the loss of the contraband, but ship impoundment, arrest for all crew members (at the authority's discretion), trials, a Court of Assizes, and (assuming the crew in general is found not guilty) one heck of a lot of paperwork to get everything sorted out... assuming the crew decides to fight it out legally. If they decide to pursue other options, well, that's a potential jailbreak adventure, grand theft starship to get their ship back, life as a fugitive/renegade crew (hey, A-Team-style adventures, anyone? Or adventures on the other side of the skip-tracing rules?), maybe a reason for the party to get into jumpcussing/piracy... there are many, many ways the campaign can go from here.

One of the old T20 supplements mentioned licenses. Basically it stated that any ex-military or ex-government PC who received a weapon as a benefit also got a license, and that a license for a pistol was different from a license for a shotgun and from an ACR as well. I'd consider this to include any civilians who got a weapon benefit - provided that the player chose a civilian weapon such as an auto pistol or shotgun (point: IMTU there are "civilian" gauss pistols, which only fire one shot at a time, like a revolver or regular pistol).

Anyways, if you adopt this rule, you could have that SDB CrapStain oh I'm sorry Captain say, "we'll escort you guys in so you can put these in the starport locker where you can get them when you're leaving, seeing as you have Imperial but not LOCAL licenses." :twisted:

 

[Galadrion]

*Nod* Precisely, Mr. Rowe. I believe the supplement you're referring to was Central Supply Catalog. And I generally only automatically issue the appropriate licensing in the case of "honor" equipment - which is to say, restricted equipment rolled up as a mustering out benefit upon honorably leaving a career. Leave as a result of a bad career event, yet still manage to keep that benefit? Um... that ACR may have "wandered away" when you left, and the paperwork might be a little sticky. Purchasing some high-power goodies once your travelling days have begun? Getting a license is not automatic. I don't make it impossible, but the players do have to make some effort in order to register such things, just like they would need to for a piloting or driving license.

 

[dragoner]

A perfect chance for characters to use that persuade skill:

Success: "Carry on."

Fail: "Let's just say I'm picking on you."*

Adjust difficulty as needed.

(*Actual quote.)

 

[Jame Rowe]

*Nod* Precisely, Mr. Rowe. I believe the supplement you're referring to was Central Supply Catalog. And I generally only automatically issue the appropriate licensing in the case of "honor" equipment - which is to say, restricted equipment rolled up as a mustering out benefit upon honorably leaving a career. Leave as a result of a bad career event, yet still manage to keep that benefit? Um... that ACR may have "wandered away" when you left, and the paperwork might be a little sticky. Purchasing some high-power goodies once your travelling days have begun? Getting a license is not automatic. I don't make it impossible, but the players do have to make some effort in order to register such things, just like they would need to for a piloting or driving license.

I thoroughly enjoy this. :twisted:

 

[FreeTrav]

I seem to recall a thread in the past that touched on similar questions; my take on it was:

Local jurisdiction applies to the mainworld planetary surface, except for the extraterritoriality zone in which the ground component of the starport is constructed. Imperial forces virtually never assist local forces outside the extraterritoriality zone, and exercise sole jurisdiction within that zone.

If the locals have the technological capability and the will to exercise control over their COACC zone, their jurisdiction applies there as well, except for a corridor for access to the extraterritorial starport. At local request, Imperial forces might assist local forces, where such assistance has a direct impact on securing the safety of the starport, or in cases of urgent and imminent danger to sophonts. If the locals do not have the technological capacity, or are unwilling to exercise the control, Imperial forces exercise sole jurisdiction within this zone.

If the locals have sufficient technological capability to plant permanent installations on worlds of the system other than the mainworld, sole local jurisdiction includes the surface and COACC zone of all worlds on which such permanent installations have been constructed, except for extraterritoriality zones and corridors. Outside the COACC zone of all worlds within the system, Imperial forces exercise sole jurisdiction over starships in transit between jump and an extraterritorial zone, or starships or spacecraft in transit between two extraterritorial zones, but may "request" assistance from local forces. Local forces exercise sole jurisdiction over starships or spacecraft in transit between two points in the system neither of which is an extraterritorial zone, and Imperial forces will usually respond to requests for assistance, but will not initiate action unless they or a starship over which they exercise jurisdiction is in danger. Starships or spacecraft in transit between a non-extraterritorial zone and an extraterritorial zone are within the jurisdiction of whichever power (Imperial or local) exercises jurisdiction over the origin point, until they enter the COACC zone or extraterritorial corridor of the destination point. The other power will normally respond to requests for assistance.

If the locals do not have jurisdiction, even if they are called to assist, local prohibitions do not apply, period. This does not mean that locals cannot observe violations of local laws and make notes for special attention to the ship, later, when/if it enters local jurisdiction.

If Imperial forces are assisting locals, they will only enforce local prohibitions to the extent that the locals have said "This ship that we are requesting your assistance with is known to be in violation of Local Code Section 23B7a§1a4, which prohibits the transport of left-handed potrzebies in LH2-fueled ships. Please stop this ship and confiscate all left-handed potrzebies aboard." If, in confiscating the left-handed potrzebies, they discover that the ship was also transporting inverted right-handed frammistams, they will do nothing about the frammistams, even if someone in the Imperial detachment knows that local law specifies that right-handed frammistams may not be transported off-world while inverted, because the locals did not specify this as a reason for acting against the ship.

 

[Jacqual]

I read somewhere that if an item (weapon or armor) was allowed by imperial standards it would be allowed to be kept on the players ship if said item violated the local planetary laws. As the ship would be in an Imperial Starport the item wouldn't be in violation as the Starport is owned by the Imperium just as an embassy is owned and operated by a foreign country. The characters that want to leave the starport have to clear custums each and everytime they come and go from the ship to the planet.

In the case of the worlds with the pile of dirt spaceport or even no spaceport not many of those have very high law levels, which makes the question not very relevant in 99.9% of the time. The reason being given for this at the time, so that ship crews could actually defend themselves legally from pirates. If your in a system that the law level states no weapons, are pirates if they are able to get onboard follow the law no they won't. The crew members will need to defend the ship if they feel they can do so with success. Now they will not be able to take those rifles and shotguns, and potentially armor with them when they are planet side but they can use them in space to defend themselves.

The travelling from the JUMP entrance point to the planet is arranged through the starport, the ship is given an approach vector. If the ships does not follow the approach vector, the starport contacts the SDB's withen range and informs them of the violation. This grants the SDB's the authority to board the ship (forcefully if needed), search it and then confiscate any weapons or armor (or any other items in violation to planetary laws), this includes cargo at this point.

If a ship is JUMPING in to just refill by skimming a gas giant or such, they again contact the Starport and inform them of the refuel intentions. Starport grants the request gives them a flightpath, monitors the ship and informs the SDB's of the ship and it's intentions. If the ship deviates or changes its plans without good reason the SDB's have the authority to do the above search and siezure if needed at this time.

This should be how it works in a fairly simple manner, as all the inforcement away from the imperial starport is handed by the planetary government, the Imperium only inforces its rule on starport property.