Progress on 2e

[Da Boss]

The ISA remains a pawn of the Vorlons even after their departure - much as the Drakh attempt to carry out the Shadows work. As such they keep the best elements of that power to themselves.

Alliances:

Agreed most govements would hesitate to have a military not under their control operating with themexcept in the most dire circumstances

There is argument to allow most races to use Raiders as Deniable assets - the Narn certainly did.

I don't think the Minbari warriors would want anyone else defending their borders - espcially non Minbari.

Shadows should get minions to carry out their aims - espcially in low key areas - patrol and raid scenarios - they don't like doing things themselves if they can get someone else eto do it.

could use the ISA fleet as allies only when fighting certain enemies - much as in old 40K the Harlequins used to aid pretty much anyone against Chaos.

regards

 

[Jhary]

Depending on how the ISA government works (or fails to work, like most governments...) the president may or may not be able to just take military units from their construction facilities and use them without the backing of whatever legislative assembly the ISA has. Given that the ISA seems to be largely based on a US-style federated system, I'd say he couldn't legally do it on his own authority alone.

Wrong its more like the european Union multiple Gouverments and on person who is called President with out real power. Ups here comes the change his Office is in charge of some of the most feared space ships.

So its Steeling what he has don.

Ok to the fakt that EA work also to build the victorys, How gett they paid?

And how was once oin an other TV-Show the Phrase if you get double paid why not building 2 and get paid like you have build 4?

 

[tneva82]

quick fix to a problem IMO where a different and more appropriate new design (even an uprated warlock) would be better.

Except is it appropriate for EA to design ship worth 2 sharlins? Canonically it's very much doubtful wether they could even EQUAL sharlin in the 2260-2270 era...(have they managed to come around the stealth system even? Certainly B5 couldn't do that. Could any of their warships?)

 

[Gregster]

Noob Question.
Am I right in assuming that the second edition will be replacing the current revised edition and sky full of stars? It's just that I have only recently bought the basic set and don't want to splash out on more stuff if it's all going to be outdated soon

 

[Greg Smith]

Yes, the secend edition will replace all of the current rules. How soon it will be released is not yet known, though (other than 2007).

 

[captainsmirk]

have they managed to come around the stealth system even? Certainly B5 couldn't do that. Could any of their warships?

I think using B5 as an example there is a bad choice, it was a diplomatic station, specifically mentioned as having sensors of Earth-Minbari war date, not top of the range military sensors. However there is no evidence to suggest that the warship sensors could penetrate stealth...

I however doubt that stealth is in the show's reality as all or nothing as its portrayed in the game. Earth sensors might be better at penetrating it than they were, just can't negate completely.


Nick

 

[tneva82]

I however doubt that stealth is in the show's reality as all or nothing as its portrayed in the game. Earth sensors might be better at penetrating it than they were, just can't negate completely.

Actually game stealth is too inefficient. Afterall early EA can shoot at minbari's yet in EA-minbari war total inability to do anything to the stealth was precicely the problem. They were pretty much forced to eyeball where the minbari ship is and flood the area with pulse shots. No wonder they only destroyed capital ships via ramming them :lol:

 

[Da Boss]

doesn't the fluff on various late era EA ships talk about alien tech, Shadow tech and various reverse egineering so that is, I presume that is how they can track and destroy the Minabri............

 

[Alexb83]

quick fix to a problem IMO where a different and more appropriate new design (even an uprated warlock) would be better.

Except is it appropriate for EA to design ship worth 2 sharlins? Canonically it's very much doubtful wether they could even EQUAL sharlin in the 2260-2270 era...(have they managed to come around the stealth system even? Certainly B5 couldn't do that. Could any of their warships?)

Those are good points. It does sort of raise questions as to why/how the younger races should be able to exceed the Sharlin (let alone match the Shadow ship/Vorlon Heavy Cruiser with a single vessel) within 1000 years, let alone 10-20 after the series ends. The whole Armageddon PL is a bit... bleh.
I would argue that no, they can't get around stealth. But according to Mongoose, the EA have the best sensor suites in the Galaxy (the Delphi) and are also capable of reproducing Minbari-level stealth tech (again, the Delphi - and the Vree Vaarl for that matter), and the Minbari can't overcome stealth in the game any better than any other race - which is somewhat counter-intuitive.

 

[tneva82]

The whole Armageddon PL is a bit... bleh.

Well not really. It's more than appropriate for say shadow&vorlon ships :lol:. And I guess victory might be able to fit there(combination of minbari/vorlon/ea tech) justabout. Not much else though.

I could see EA EQUALING sharlin roughly with the alien/shadow tech they have got so war level gunship is fine but armageddon? Uhhuh. Leave that to first ones.

 

[Alexb83]

doesn't the fluff on various late era EA ships talk about alien tech, Shadow tech and various reverse egineering so that is, I presume that is how they can track and destroy the Minabri............

The Vree were supposedly able to reverse-engineer a Minbari vessel to make gravitic drives and stealth tech (I think that's in some expanded universe stuff?). But the EA never got hold of any Minbari ships to reverse engineer.

As to how much shadowtech the EA actually had (as opposed to black ops) that's very questionable. All the shadow Omegas were completely destroyed. Whatever was left of the shadowtech seems to have been in the hands of the Psi Corps (hence the move towards the separate black ops fleet). Mainline EA ships should not be sporting shadow technology...

 

[Alexb83]

The whole Armageddon PL is a bit... bleh.

Well not really. It's more than appropriate for say shadow&vorlon ships :lol:. And I guess victory might be able to fit there(combination of minbari/vorlon/ea tech) justabout. Not much else though.

I could see EA EQUALING sharlin roughly with the alien/shadow tech they have got so war level gunship is fine but armageddon? Uhhuh. Leave that to first ones.

Oh, it's fine for the Shadow Ship and Heavy Cruiser - but giving ships that powerful to the younger races in the timeframe we see is a bit silly. The Vorlons and Shadows had millions of years to make ships that big/powerful, and I think people are kidding themselves to think that within 20 years the younger races could jump that far technologically.

That being said, I think that it's also silly to think that the Minbari (or the Centauri) aren't making efforts to advance their own technology (there's very little evidence of this in Mongoose's current ship designs). They're already hundreds-thousands of years in advance of the EA, do you really think they'd let the EA close that technology gap? Especially now that they have Drakh/Vorlon technology respectively to play with.

 

[tneva82]

They're already hundreds-thousands of years in advance of the EA, do you really think they'd let the EA close that technology gap? Especially now that they have Drakh/Vorlon technology respectively to play with.

That's why we could see new ships but Sharlin is sharlin so reachable.

Hits into problem of how to make beefier sharlin without making it armageddon choise though :? Or maybe minbari could come up with armageddon level ship(they have highest level of tech anyway and add to that some vorlon technology they have...).

 

[Alexb83]

The Sharlin is already probably the best War level ship available to any race, thanks to the mix of stealth, firepower and fighters. The Bin'Tak and the Octurion may be a bit over-powered in comparison for what their raeces (if you work on the assumption that the Sharlin should be just about the best ship in the Galaxy bar first ones)... but ultimately the game has to be balanced such that you can play each other.
I don't think it needs changing much at all. Other Minbari War PL ships maybe need a rethink due to the fact that they all suck greatly compared to the Sharlin, without offering much by way of other advantages.

Without changing the stealth rule, there are some possible fixes to how the ships work as is - say 5+ across the board for Minbari, or introduce 6+ for some ships (4+ stealth ships really do suffer thanks to the new rules, especially as they're almost all having to get within 20 inches just to fire).

Perhaps giving Minbari the Drakh/Shadow/Vorlon +1 vs. stealth bonus, or unlimited range on Leshath scout traits.

 

[Tank]

I have to admit I dont think that the technological development is totally unbeleivable, look at our own technological development, Kitty Hawk to the moon in what? 60 years?? thats some big leaps.

The question about the Minbari & Centauri not developing so much could be due to several underlying factors, economy, political will or even direction. Do they feel the need for new uber ships? Do they have the economy to support an R&D Drive? what would happen if everyone engaged in an Arms Race? Are there Arms Limitations treaties in place? who knows?

 

[Greg Smith]

As to how much shadowtech the EA actually had (as opposed to black ops) that's very questionable. All the shadow Omegas were completely destroyed. Whatever was left of the shadowtech seems to have been in the hands of the Psi Corps (hence the move towards the separate black ops fleet). Mainline EA ships should not be sporting shadow technology...

The big drive of 'Crusade' was going to be against EA black ops. There may not be any Shadow Omegas around, but they had at least one shipyard around util the time of Crusade and were capable of producing the Hybrid hunter. As for mianline EA ships not supporting Shadow tech - doesn't the Warlock count as mainline?

 

[MustEatBrains]

The big drive of 'Crusade' was going to be against EA black ops. There may not be any Shadow Omegas around, but they had at least one shipyard around util the time of Crusade and were capable of producing the Hybrid hunter. As for mianline EA ships not supporting Shadow tech - doesn't the Warlock count as mainline?

They also had Shadow fighter Hybrids.

But did the Warlock really support shadow tech? I know it says as much in the SFOS fluff, but thas about the only source I can htink of at the moment...

 

[katadder]

you say that the younger races wouldnt be able to get onto the level of the shadows/vorlons in that space of time but which younger races are? yes they ahve very powerful ships. the victory uses vorlon tech, the nemesis shadowtech, the adira drakhtech and the ka'bin'tak is just huge, the same goes for the brivoki but just cos they are the same level doesnt mean they are upto the standard of the ancients.
a ka'bin'tak is that level not cos of technological advances but because its so big and mount so much firepower, pretty much the same with the flying speaker. the other 3 ships i mentioned are also massive but use some ancient tech.
btu even going by all this they are still not the same as ancients, these younger races arma ships an still take crits, still have crew etc so are more about firepower than being the sam techlevel.

 

[Da Boss]

Agree - also once the Ancients start handing out their Tech to other races or it is recovered then advances are going to be swift.

Not sure is a problem with Minbari stealth - usually very effectve and it is an extra edge - their weapons, fighters etc are very powerful. and logically the Vorlons / Shadows should ignore their stealth...............

 

[Alexb83]

I suppose the question I was trying to put forward is: Should the younger races have anything which is remotely capable of taking on a Shadow/Vorlon ship in a one on one confrontation? Mongoose say yes, but the series would tend to say no. And ultimately what the PL system boils down to is trying to equate ships to each other. A K'B'T should be able to take on a Vorlon Heavy Cruiser by the rule of Priority Levels... is this right? Should that ship have that much firepower? The technology may not be as advanced in terms of the weapon traits, but the fact that it matches/exceeds the raw destructive power of a million year old race is a bit iffy, IMO, as it clearly indicates that they've managed to develop some sort of powersource capable of powering more weapons than any Vorlon or Shadow ship has.

I don't think you can argue from what's shown in the series that any ship that didn't belong to the first ones could hope to reach parity with them (aside from those carrying mobs of Telepaths - and then, only vs. the shadows obviously).