Print Quality of Traveller Rulebook

[mRgUnN]

Dear All:

I just got my copy of Mongoose's new release of the Traveller Core Rulebook. I am very disappointed in the poor materials quality of this, my first Mongoose product.

The book is printed in black and white only, the paper is very cheap standard 20# stock; and the binding is glued rather than sewn. For a list price of $39.95, I expect better. By comparison, I got a copy of GURPS Space on the same day, the list price is $34.95, and the materials quality is far superior. GURPS Space is full color and the paper is high quality magazine stock; although the binding is glued as well.

I would ask that Mongoose consider publishing their products using better quality materials, especially for something that cost $40.

Disappointed ...

Regards,

mRgUnN

 

[danbuter]

I prefer black and white, and normal over glossy paper. But I wish the binding were stitched. So I agree with you 33%. :twisted:

 

[MongooseMatt]

The binding _is_ stitched.

As for the paper, it is recycled - if anyone is interested, we can actually tell you how many trees (5 1/2) were saved in using it to print Traveller. It is quite standard, as several other publishers use the same printers we do.

 

[AKAramis]

The binding _is_ stitched.

As for the paper, it is recycled - if anyone is interested, we can actually tell you how many trees (5 1/2) were saved in using it to print Traveller. It is quite standard, as several other publishers use the same printers we do.

I'm quite happy with it. Only recent rulebook as easy on the eyes for me is AD&D 4E...

I like black and white. I like not having images under the text. I like the focus being on the writing. I often play with oblique lighting (sun between horizon and 30° above), and glossy paper becomes hard to read in such light.

I applaud the use of recycled paper.

 

[aspqrz]

The binding _is_ stitched.

And quite sturdy, too, compared to First Printing of GURPS 4e Core Rulebooks, which are not only not sewn but badly glued.

I also think that using recycled paper is great! I find the GURPS paper a little too glossy, personally.

Phil

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon;
Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@pacific.net.au

 

[tneva82]

I like black and white. I like not having images under the text.

Agreed 100%.

I rather enjoy the rather old style look. Much easier to read. Some of the artwork is so-so but b&w fits just nicely there.

 

[mRgUnN]

The binding _is_ stitched.

I stand corrected, the binding is indeed stitched.

As for the paper, it is recycled - if anyone is interested, we can actually tell you how many trees (5 1/2) were saved in using it to print Traveller. It is quite standard, as several other publishers use the same printers we do.

I understand the economics of print run size, royalties, development costs, materials costs, etc. Of course I do not know the AUR and GP% or the ROI that Mongoose finance requires. However, I stand by my original statement; the materials quality is poor. Given the paper is cheap/recycled and mono-color printing costs much less than color, the product is over priced. For the price, Mongoose could have found a perfectly good recycled coated paper and printed this in color, IMHO, this book is worth closer to $24.95 or $29.95 not $39.95.

Regards,

mRgUnN

 

[MongooseMatt]

For the price, Mongoose could have found a perfectly good recycled coated paper and printed this in color, IMHO, this book is worth closer to $24.95 or $29.95 not $39.95.

Something you might find interesting. . .

If we had printed this book seven years ago, it would indeed be $29.95. However, the Dollar has devalued to the point whereby $10 has effectively been added to the price.

Basically, the Dollar is not worth what it once was, and you will see from companies outside the US increase in price.

 

[-Daniel-]

The binding _is_ stitched.

I stand corrected, the binding is indeed stitched.

As for the paper, it is recycled - if anyone is interested, we can actually tell you how many trees (5 1/2) were saved in using it to print Traveller. It is quite standard, as several other publishers use the same printers we do.

I understand the economics of print run size, royalties, development costs, materials costs, etc. Of course I do not know the AUR and GP% or the ROI that Mongoose finance requires. However, I stand by my original statement; the materials quality is poor. Given the paper is cheap/recycled and mono-color printing costs much less than color, the product is over priced. For the price, Mongoose could have found a perfectly good recycled coated paper and printed this in color, IMHO, this book is worth closer to $24.95 or $29.95 not $39.95.

Regards,

mRgUnN

I am just curious mRgUnN, how long have you been in prnting? What real experiance do you have in judging a grade of paper etc? Is this just your opinion that this paper is the cheep stuff or is it based on any real experiance etc?

Daniel

 

[danbuter]

The binding _is_ stitched.

As for the paper, it is recycled - if anyone is interested, we can actually tell you how many trees (5 1/2) were saved in using it to print Traveller. It is quite standard, as several other publishers use the same printers we do.

This is what I get for not looking at my copy before posting. I assumed the OP had looked and knew what he was talking about.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I'm quite happy with it.

I like black and white. I like not having images under the text. I like the focus being on the writing. I often play with oblique lighting (sun between horizon and 30° above), and glossy paper becomes hard to read in such light.

I applaud the use of recycled paper.

I Ditto all the above. Kudos to Mongoose.

 

[T.L.]

Hi, I too just received my book and I am quite pleased.

I am not a Traveller fan and I've never seen an older edition. I've bought it after reading the previews, especially the character creation (it sold me the game, as it is something in between Cyberpunk's Lifepath and my homebrew system). I was a little worried by the quality of the book... and it's a very good surprise.

The hardcover is perfect and the binding is strong. It seems the printing issue is gone The paper is OK, imo. If you want to see what a crappy paper is, try the French edition of D&D 4: so thin it's glossy "toilet" paper, plus it's warped like if it was dropped in water... I have a flawed version of Slaine (quickly replaced by Mongoose, thanks), and it's ten times better.

Sure it is not a shiny video game manual, it's old school — in the good sense. It's a complete ruleset, there are tons of informations and you can play with just the core book. The system is pretty generic and not too complicated. The layout is clean, easy to read. The artwork is average to good, and never too dark — I hate when you can't see details, due to a poor B&W printing. Really, there are far worse books than Traveller. This one is fine, and not that expensive: you don't need anything else to play.

Thierry

 

[Finarvyn]

I also like the "old school" black & white look. I've said for years that games should read more like this and not have funky colors of font on strange colored backgrounds. I own some game books that are works of art but are hard as heck to actually read. Thumbs up from me on this one!

 

[MaxSteiner]

For the price, Mongoose could have found a perfectly good recycled coated paper and printed this in color, IMHO, this book is worth closer to $24.95 or $29.95 not $39.95.

Something you might find interesting. . .

If we had printed this book seven years ago, it would indeed be $29.95. However, the Dollar has devalued to the point whereby $10 has effectively been added to the price.

Basically, the Dollar is not worth what it once was, and you will see from companies outside the US increase in price.

I was going to make a coy remark along the lines of 'if thats the case why is the book twenty quid over here?', but to be honest thats quite a fair price and I would have expected something closer to thirty.
BUT that said comparisons between GURPS books and Mongoose books is entirly fair in terms of size and everything. I know it can be brushed aside rather easily, but between the black and white printing, the cheaper quality paper, and the fact thats its 2008 I think this is a complaint which could be leveled against quite alot of upcoming releases.

... Incidently (Although tbh I don't expect any answers anymore lol), whats the Mongoose returns procedure like, is it as green as the choice of paper?

 

[katadder]

well £20 is about $40 anyway at the moment so same price in both countries

 

[mRgUnN]

Dear Admin:

What happened to my last post?

Regards,

mRgUnN

 

[Myrm]

I like black and white. I like not having images under the text. I like the focus being on the writing. I often play with oblique lighting (sun between horizon and 30° above), and glossy paper becomes hard to read in such light.
.

Oh boy do I agree with that lot. Plus the style is very classically Traveller and so fits the cover design theme.

 

[serene_muse]

Mongoose Traveller is a licensed work, GURPS Space is not. While MWM / FFE's licensing fees are reasonable from what I've seen, they still add up.

I would have liked to have seen the book cost a little less, $35 or if possible $30 (doubt that'd happen though), but $40 seems to be a current pricepoint for core rulebooks, Mongoose and more. Certainly cheaper than D&D4E at list or at Amazon set preorder price. :twisted:

Does using recycled paper translate into cheaper paper? I don't know on a book publishing level, but on a office supply level reams of recycled paper usually cost more than non-recycled paper, esp. if you go with higher % of recycled materials.

The cheapest hardcover core book of a current game that I'm aware of is Castles & Crusades. $20 for 128 b&w pages, non-licensed and based (loosely) on the d20 SRD, from a US company. I'm also pretty sure they deliberately set that price low and have far far fewer staff to pay than Mongoose (and it showed in the first printing). To run a game, you also either need D&D DMG and MM books (3E or earlier) or the Monsters & Treasures book for C&C, which is another $20. More pages, but a lot of those are D&D-type spell listings, which take up a lot of space.

* and thus requires at least the 2 GURPS core books to play, which cost much more than $40; Mongoose Traveller is the sole core book needed to play 8)

 

[Warlock32]

Love my Copy of Traveller, converted my Classic Traveller campaign to it, and have been running for weeks now.

(BTW, my Intrepid band of players has just boarded the asteroid containing SuSag Psi-Pharmaceuticals factory via the Heat exchange service array on the far side of the 9km long planetoid. They are about to discover the horrifying secret behind SuSag's medical experiments on live subjects and the smuggling operation to the Zhodani Consulate!

 

[MaxSteiner]

Mongoose Traveller is a licensed work, GURPS Space is not. etc. etc. etc.

Can people stop making excuses for Mongoose?
Its bad enough when noone calls them on their mistakes, its even worse in situations like this where theres nothing wrong and people are still making excuses
Mongoose is at least as big as Steve Jackson Games, its just makes it sound like Mongoose is the sickman of the RPG world to desperatly seek reasons why MongTrav is more than GURPS_TRAV