Prime Directive Traveller

[Jean]

Rick, over 200 years, uniforms change!

You might find these links useful,

Federation Enlisted Ranks Insignia

Federation Officer Rank Insignia

You can find more insignia here: http://www.starfleetgames.com/historicaldownloads.shtml#hg

The Federation medals can be hard to find, but are here: http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/FedMedals72.jpg

Does that help?

 

[Rambler]

I'm going to go off on a slight tangent, but still PD related. Can anyone with a little more SFB knowledge help me out here on the Starfleet uniforms/insignia side of things.
From what I gather, SFB has done away with most of the security redshirts, starship security seems to be handled by a Marine contingent (presumably there is a very small master at arms redshirt section left), and gold shirts are worn by starship operations crew (helm, navigation, etc) and only the top 2 command personnel (Captain/First officer at a guess), whilst medical/science seems to be mainly unchanged.
Where are rank insignia worn? I've seen pictures of both collar insignia and cuff insignia but not on the same picture.
Also, any info or pictures of Starfleet Marine uniforms anywhere?

There is not a SFU fashion type book out there. Most Empires where the uniforms as seen on ty. As far as Rank Insignias go there are PDFs over on ADBs Boards that cover those but as far as I know you only wear one set of those at a time based on the uniform, either collar or sleeves not both at once. Marines still wear the Red Support Services Uniform in non combat situations and change to Fatigues for combat.

But, like I said this a area open to some leeway and if you know some one who wants totake acrack at designing uniforms tell them to let ADB know.

 

[Nerroth]

Also, any info or pictures of Starfleet Marine uniforms anywhere?

There will be later this year (or early next year), when the cover art for ADB's upcoming Star Fleet Marines: Assault game gets shown off!

 

[Rick]

Jean, Rambler - thanks for the comments, think I've just worked it out (with your help). I'm kicking myself for not realising that the style of the uniform had changed as well! Right, so - cuff insignia with the coloured shirt and black trousers, and collar insignia with the much later looking uniform.

I used to have the original PD (lent it out and never got it back) and someone has lent me a copy of GURPS PD. I was trying to work out why the insignia had changed and hadn't twigged to the fact that the background has evolved and moved on in time somewhat from what I remembered!

 

[Jean]

Rick, you might try looking at the art galleries on our page on Facebook. They are pretty extensive and do include "people art" as well as starships and other assorted "stuff."

 

[Nerroth]

Here's a preview sketch of that SFM:A cover, by the way.


Can't wait to see the finished version!

 

[Rick]

Thanks for those links, got a bit more to look at.

It does kind of beg the question, though. Why isn't there more of this in the PD rulebooks? The reason that I ask is that given that the background is so very visually rich I think an rpg of this sort needs a lot of visuals. On my shelves I have a lot of the LUG ST rpg books and they are great in that respect, plenty of illustrations throughout (even ignoring the photo's from the series which you'd not be able to use).

Perhaps a section on Starfleet in a Federation sourcebook could have the different iterations of the uniforms, for example.

Sorry, also meant to add that it needs to be in one place, I'm ok with trying to search in different places all over the internet, but it really needs to be accessible in the books.

 

[daryen]

The TL 9-10 range is specifically there to allow for sleeper and generational ships to exist (like Rambler points out). That range is also there for those high-tech societies that can explore their solar system, but still haven't made it to warp drive yet.

But, yes, FTL societies cannot exist prior to TL 11 in this scale.

As for uniforms, things are, uh, interesting. Apparently there are limits on what we can formally show and do. I hope to get a better feeling of the limits, but we won't be able to perfectly reflect the TOS uniform. That said, covering some uniform variations is a cool idea. I will have to talk with Jean and SVC about that. The uniform colors should be pretty much the same as it was in TOS. I don't see much difference.

Oh, and, yes, "security red shirts" are replaced by marines. Which, quite frankly, is not a big issue. First, from a player/referee point of view, they would operationally be the same. What you call them is up to you. Second, you can also say that for most purposes, they use the same uniforms (i.e. wear the red shirts), unless in special operations, in order to blend into the ships crew better. I dunno. It really isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Jean]

Rick, not everything is in the RPG books ... at least not yet. We haven't had a lot of requests for that information and our POD plant doesn't have color capabilities. Still, we do make it available through the web so that players and GMs (once they settle into the game) can find ways to visualize characters.

Now, in two years when I have retired and moved to Amarillo, I'd like to see that sort of thing covered in supplements/magazines. (And yes, I am excited by all the possibilities inherent in that. I want to cover Tafelland and Texmex and other planets, build "shared" towns/outposts, have game reports and adventures, discuss what is being done at cons, and all sorts of things!)

 

[rust]

But, yes, FTL societies cannot exist prior to TL 11 in this scale.

This would unfortunately be a bit high for my usual campaigns. Is there
any chance that wormholes (like the one in DS9) are possible in the Star
Fleet Universe ?

(Sorry, I know next to nothing about Prime Directive's universe ... )

 

[Rambler]

But, yes, FTL societies cannot exist prior to TL 11 in this scale.

This would unfortunately be a bit high for my usual campaigns. Is there
any chance that wormholes (like the one in DS9) are possible in the Star
Fleet Universe ?

(Sorry, I know next to nothing about Prime Directive's universe ... )

Oh you so opened that can of worms :lol: I could answer that but I am going to sit back and let Nerroth get it. Youjust played into his wheel house.

EDIT: BTW your campaign your rules if you want to just plug in Warp were it says Jump more power to you to you just remember.her it throws off other things like Subspace Communication, Tractor Beams, Transporters, Replicators, etc.

 

[Rick]

Apologies if my earlier post seemed overly critical, it wasn't meant to be in any way. As far as I see it, PD has extremely good content overall, but I think it would benefit from more visuals.

As to the 'redshirts' issue - I don't have any problems with that, far from it. As far as it goes, I think that's one of the few things that the "Enterprise" series got right. I really don't think Starfleet Marines would wear them, even on duty on a starship - if you look at a US Navy vessel, for example, Marines wear camouflage fatigues on board ship all the time. I still think there would be a small security detachment (in red shirts!) to act as a shipboard police force (run by a Master-at-arms probably) and operate the brig, as Marines would have an entirely different role, but that's just adding more detail.

 

[DFW]

But, yes, FTL societies cannot exist prior to TL 11 in this scale.

That doesn't follow the TRek universe TL scale at all. Why do it this way?

 

[Jean]

Rick, Mike and I have been chatting with SVC about the uniforms. SVC pointed out that in 40 years, there have been a dozen US Army uniforms. I'll add that those are just for what the SFU calls a Class-M planet (or earth-like). What would be worn on a hot planet -- the equivalent of a desert? What about a snowbound one? A water world? There would need to be modifications made for the Mynieni who are not exactly humanoid shaped.

And that is just the Federation. We have oh so many more empires to address.

Costume books tend to be Very Expensive. They also tend to get remaindered, which means that they were considered to be a Good Idea in theory, but didn't sell worth a flip.

In the meantime I've GOT to prioritize and that means getting out the core RB and not go wandering off into the uniform wilderness where I will no doubt find skants and dress uniforms and winter dress, Oh My! :shock:

 

[rust]

... it throws off other things like Subspace Communication, Tractor Beams, Transporters, Replicators, etc.

Yep, that's the problem, I do not want to ruin the consistency of the setting
and then have to rewrite half the setting if I can avoid it.

 

[daryen]

But, yes, FTL societies cannot exist prior to TL 11 in this scale.

That doesn't follow the TRek universe TL scale at all. Why do it this way?

I am working from the SFU TL scale, which only really covers the later TLs. So, TL 11+ (as I listed it earlier) is fixed and the way the SFU works. If it needs to get pushed down to TL 10 (or even TL 9), it still works the same way, you just get a smaller window of STL exploration.

Not that I am making any promises or anything (either way), but, where is a good reference on what you view as the "proper Trek universe TL scale"? Again, if you are referring to the TL 11+ scale, it isn't going to change. If you are worried about the TL9-10 "gap", that is something that can change (i.e. get smaller or go away), but I would want to have a good reason for eliminating those levels when they provide a lot of utility.

 

[DFW]

but I would want to have a good reason for eliminating those levels when they provide a lot of utility.

Go back to the Trek timeline (actual Earth dates when Cochrane is the first human to invent warp drive, in 2063). Examine the data and where Earth was in Trek and what exists in TL 11 tech.

There's your "good reason".

 

[rust]

Go back to the Trek timeline (actual Earth dates when Cochrane is the first human to invent warp drive, in 2063). Examine the data and where Earth was in Trek and what exists in TL 11 tech.

Yep, looking at the Star Trek timeline, the first fully operational starship
with a warp drive probably was the SS Conestoga launched in 2069, it
founded the colony on Terra Nova, and Earth before 2069 hardly has
much in common with the TL 9 / TL 10 technology of Traveller. So, if one
wants to use the official Star Trek timeline, one has to put three entire
Traveller technology levels (TL 8 - 10) into the 58 years between today
and 2069, which does not seem very convincing.

 

[Iron Domokun]

The Star Trek timeline differs from the SFU timeline. The SFU is somewhat agnostic on exactly what century AD it's set in... Federation Commander sets first contact between Humans and Vulcans at 2400AD IIRC, so the SFU primary history is in the 25th - 26th centuries, not the 23rd. That's the "Valkenburg Chronology". The "ibn Audeh Chronology" sets First Contact much earlier. Apparently when the "source tapes" got transmitted through the time warp, they got garbled and mixed in with transmissions from other timelines so scholars differ on certain points.

 

[zero]

This is where dating something like that in a timescale so close to ours doesnt work out well.

How does Star Trek deal with those years of spacetravel from now until 2069, where we probably wont be getting in RL a manned mission to Mars until the 2050s? :?

EDIT - beaten to the punch. Still, would like to know more about pre-Warp space travel, evolving past the expeditions to our system's planets.