Prime Directive Traveller

[Iron Warrior.]

After my personal experience with SVC while involved with starfleet battles I must say I will never buy any product connected to him in any way whatsoever.

I can understand that viewpoint. He's can be a tad crotchety and difficult to deal with at times. I used to just try to avoid him. But after meeting him at Origins and playing a couple games of Terrorwerks with him, he seems to have taken a shine to me for some reason. (he says it's the bond of guys fighting with each other - though it's just Airsoft, it functions much the same way apparently

Though to be sure, he's run off quite a few players over the years, and as such, I can see why you might feel that way.

But if you don't want to buy his products, sorry, your loss. Have fun with whatever you are playing.

Well, a lot of people can be abusive, arrogant, offensive, etc, thru the mail or over the net yet become very different when a person is within arm's reach.

I also don't consider not buying "his" products "my loss". I had the 1e of PD and was disappointed to find it was basically a personal scale wargame with some rpg elements pasted on. It kind of reminded me of some old pocket games or small box games that were in that twilight zone between a full rpg and a wargame with persons as units.

 

[zero]

Could we get a rough preview on how the TLs work currently?

I'd say a minimum of TL 8, for things like armour and survival gear, whilst going up to TL 11 for weapons and even higher than that for computers and communication equipment.

I havent thought about actual starship TLs yet, but I'd expect 9+.

Thats my own opinion though, which is more than a little sullied by watching alot of TNG which I know wont be included in this game.

I've decided I'm probably gonna go with a Vulcan or something for a character first - gah, theres so much choice and that Gorn option is also tempting :lol:

 

[Scoundrel]

Heyas... new poster, here, and I Just wanted to throw my two FedCreds in.


As a longtime roleplayer (as well as a huge Trek fanatic), I feel that there are a couple salient points to be made-

1) As much as I realize that the SFU is a totally different universe, it is a "totally different universe" that starts out essentially being TOS Star Trek and the animated series with a piece of scotch tape slapped haphazardly over the serial numbers.

2) The previous versions have been all about "Now you can bring your Star Fleet Battles adventures to the personal level!"

3) SFB and the SFU in general has absolutely zero brand recognition outside of the SFB community- nobody else knows what it is, or that there are differences between the two universes in the first place, let alone what those differences are. Your average person, or hell, even your average RPG gamer is going to take a look at the cover, go "Oooooo Star Trek!" and be very, very confused once they open it up.


From the perspective of someone who has never played SFB, the previous versions of Prime Directive were awful because other than a few token efforts, it mostly assumed that the reader was a fan of SFB to begin with and did a really poor job of explaining the particulars and differences to folk like me who weren't. It was a case of people buying something on the basis that it that looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, only to find out that it's a cleverly disguised platypus in drag.

The best way, IMHO, to make the Prime Directive RPG sell better is to do a complete 180 degree turn from the way SFB has been treating its setting and embrace it's Trekkie roots instead of straying further from them and crying out "THIS IS TOTALLY BETTER!"

Make the "default" era of the setting in the core books from around the time of TOS on up to the start of the General War. Give us the ships, equipment, uniforms, etc. for that time period, and REALLY make use of that license to use all that awesome Franz Joseph material! Then give us additional books defining the other time periods in detail along with the ships, equipment, uniforms, etc. associated with each of them- that way the RPG folks can learn as they go and become fans of the SFU.

 

[BP]

Welcome to the boards Scoundrel!

Well put post - especially the part about the cross-dressing platypus! :lol:

 

[zero]

I agree with Scoundrel 100% - I can say that is what myself and my girlfriend want to see - Star Trek, not something else. I can probably vouch for other people I know too.

I dont have SFB or SFU knowledge and if its so different from Star Trek, I'm not really going to bother to research it - but put a quick primer in a Star Trek rpg book and I'll be more likely to add it to my check-out list.

I'll have my Trek games and probably not have the ISC or Jandarians (I had to wiki these to know what they were), but I will take total enjoyment from all the stuff that did feature in Star Trek and the cartoon, with my bridge crew PCs that are also the prime team, all the while tussling against a Gorn with polystyrene-looking rocks - just cos thats how I'll roll, to hell with the "better awesome newer stuff" 8) :lol:

 

[Jean]

Guys, here's the thing -- we cannot make the SFU "more Star Trek" than it is. We already go to the limits of the license. That being said, nothing prevents you from doing whatever you want to do with the material. You want red shirts -- go for it. You want to send the Captain, his proper, cool First Officer, the Ship's Doctor, and assorted people down to a planet -- go for it. If the First Officer gets drugged with something green and the Nurse was smiling after -- that is your business. No one is going to police your gaming table. No one is going to care what you name your ships, your characters, or your planets. They just cannot be used in our fiction, on our boards, at cons where we are showing and with us sponsoring the GM.

The license is what it is. Some people like the idea of retired officers traveling the galaxy, perhaps working for Star Fleet, perhaps working on their own. You can do that with this setting. Some people want bridge officers -- again, you can do that with this setting. If you want to have a Ship Counselor -- that is something for you to decide to do. It is what you very talented people make of the setting that will make your games. Do we have to give you the timeline -- yes, so we can cheerfully tell Paramount that we are creating the SFU for Traveller, not taking away their opportunity to negotiate a 5-year license with Mongoose for a ST game. That is part of what we do to stay legally in business. How many other ST games have been around for 30+ years? Will we still be here in 2017, providing supplements and updates for Traveller: PD? Barring something catastrophic, sure we will, if at all possible.

A personal favor to ask, as well. Can this thread not include personal comments about my boss? It makes me very unhappy and uncomfortable to read negative commentary when I have an entirely different perspective of him. I don't respond because the game is not about the person -- the game should rise or fall on its own merits and I cannot ask of you what I don't follow myself.

 

[Scoundrel]

Guys, here's the thing -- we cannot make the SFU "more Star Trek" than it is. We already go to the limits of the license. That being said, nothing prevents you from doing whatever you want to do with the material. You want red shirts -- go for it. You want to send the Captain, his proper, cool First Officer, the Ship's Doctor, and assorted people down to a planet -- go for it. If the First Officer gets drugged with something green and the Nurse was smiling after -- that is your business. No one is going to police your gaming table. No one is going to care what you name your ships, your characters, or your planets. They just cannot be used in our fiction, on our boards, at cons where we are showing and with us sponsoring the GM.

The license is what it is. Some people like the idea of retired officers traveling the galaxy, perhaps working for Star Fleet, perhaps working on their own. You can do that with this setting. Some people want bridge officers -- again, you can do that with this setting. If you want to have a Ship Counselor -- that is something for you to decide to do. It is what you very talented people make of the setting that will make your games. Do we have to give you the timeline -- yes, so we can cheerfully tell Paramount that we are creating the SFU for Traveller, not taking away their opportunity to negotiate a 5-year license with Mongoose for a ST game. That is part of what we do to stay legally in business. How many other ST games have been around for 30+ years? Will we still be here in 2017, providing supplements and updates for Traveller: PD? Barring something catastrophic, sure we will, if at all possible.

LOL I'm not asking you to stick Jim, Spock and Bones on the cover and have Scotty and Uhura giving game advice in the sidebars...

I'm just saying that if you set the default era in the core book to something more familiar, have the main focus be exploring strange new worlds alongside patrolling for Klingons vs. ALL MILITARY ALL THE TIME, and pay due homage to the source material that the book will both work better and sell better-

I can't speak to the d20Modern version, but both of the GURPS versions didn't work very well because there was no clear focus of what the game was about, specifically, nor about when it was set, nor about what the game universe looked like. Half of the Starfleet characters were in TOS gear and the other half were wearing uniforms that I kinda dug, but had no explanation for. Setting elements like "X-Technology" were brought up in vague terms but never addressed in terms of WTF they actually were. It just assumed that you were conversant with all the elements of the SFU, rather than somebody buying it because "Oooooo Star Trek!"

It's the elephant in the middle of the room. We're not saying that you should make it more like Classic Trek, we're just saying that focusing on and maximizing the Classic Trek elements that are already there and are already part of the license would be better for the game, no matter what the system- The Franz Joseph stuff is a gold mine of AWESOME.

 

[Rambler]

Ok, going to just put in my view of whats being asked for here. First off we know the License with Paramount will has to be protected as such there really is not much more room to push more Classic Trek. Paramount is looking to lease those rights to someone else and will react badly if they think the SFU is showing up their leasee.

With that said the first book will be the base setting book so as such it really needs to cover all eras of the SFU. But this is leaving some maybe a lot of people confused because there seem to be a lack focus. What if a couple of pages were dedicated to a fairly compressive history of the Star Fleet Universe. Things like a little bit about what is;
"The Early Years" (aka Early Federation stuff) who are the major players what is the tech level what does a typical ship or crewman look like at this time.
"The Middle Years" (aka TOS/TAS/FJD era) Once again what is the tech level whats happening in the Galaxy at this time as well as what are the Ships Like what is the attitude of characters in this time period (Exploration, Research and Cold War stuff.)
"Early War Years" Once again whats happening whats the tech level whats the attitude of the universe ( The US and Europe as seen in the middle to late 1930s sort of)
"The General War" This is the quintessential war story. Briefly sketch out history who is fighting who is winning what is the tech level and what would potential characters look like ( Military, Desperate Refugees, War Privateers...)
"The Late War" What is happening what is the tech level what could characters be doing as the war grinds to a cease fire, This is the Rise of the X Ships as new tech technoghy makes ships faster tougher and deadlier.
"The ISC Pacification" Shattered Empires and Nations start trying to rebuild thier wrecked economies while holding on to what they have, Merchants Pirates and Explores make a huge move in this time as The ISC decides to move in and stop war forever by forcefully separating the combatants with huge buffer neutral zones
"The Andromedan War" (Most like a certain show set on a Base Station when suddenly a Extra Galactic Threat decides to dominate the Alpha Quadrant smashing all resistance it encounters. Slowly the Entire Galaxy Units to try to beat a common foe.

Would something like that be helpful?

 

[Jean]

One of the problems with doing a core rulebook that covers 200 years of history is that you do brush over a lot of things. Think about the last time you saw a book covering US history and it was under 200 pages! We have an advantage in that we know basically what "humans" are like and the culture is much the same for many of us. Yet in our book, while we can assume a decent level of knowledge about the Humans, Klingons, Romulans, and Vulcans (and that you'll know something about Andorians, Gorns, Kzintis, Orions, Tellarites, and Tholians), we don't think you'll know about Alpha-Centaurans, Arcturians, Cromargs, Cygnans, Dunkars, Hilidarians, Hydrans, Lyrans, Mynieni, Phelan, Ranel, Rigellians, Skoleans, or Slirdarians. They are a vital part of the SFU and part of how we keep ourselves legal on the RPG end. Our GURPS games at the Origins Game Fair this year had a good number of Federation species featured and the gamers there loved it.

And we did try the All Military All The Time deal -- different people want different things. Not everyone wanted to be in the military. Some folks liked the idea of being the clever trader in tribbles or the unofficial group that dealt with things for their empire or even the spy who had the day (or is it night?) job of Orion Slave Girl. I think even Traveller takes this approach in some ways -- the core rulebook is broader than some of the supplements that focus on an empire or the High Guard, or merchants. That's just the way the industry works.

The same thing is true for the time period. Will many people focus on the years that a brash captain was out exploring? Sure. But we also have to brush over the other time frames so the groundwork is there for an expansion. I'd love to see a set of three books doing the Early Years, the Middle Years, and then focus on the years that come after the General War while the ISC is focusing on keeping the peace and the Andromedans are starting their incursions. I think different groups would like the dynamics in each time frame, just as some folks like gaming in the Civil War era and others in World War II. We need to give GMs enough information so that when their players trigger something that throws them back in time, the GMs can say what they are likely to have available to them. And who knows -- the next probe might be trying to reach a species that went extinct on Remus and you could be the Romulan team sent back to retrieve it.

The thing I like about the SFU is that you are limited only by your own imagination. Any time, any empire, any task is open to you. We just need to facilitate your dreams -- all of the dreams for all of the people. That means going broad with supplements that are more specific.

 

[Jean]

Rambler, you mean like pages 19-20 of the PD20M core rulebook?

 

[Iron Warrior.]

A personal favor to ask, as well. Can this thread not include personal comments about my boss? It makes me very unhappy and uncomfortable to read negative commentary when I have an entirely different perspective of him. I don't respond because the game is not about the person -- the game should rise or fall on its own merits and I cannot ask of you what I don't follow myself.

Well, kid, sometimes people say things you just don't like. It's part of life.

I supported SFB for a long time, having gotten into in in 1982 as a kid and stuck with it up to the doomsday edition and thru the long, long period where nothing was being published thanks to paramount (SPIT!) and it's legal action against ADB.

People were saying SFB was dead, and I kept refuting them for years.

When the "We're back!" CL came out I was overjoyed.

Later I had a solution to an issue that had been a pain in the ass for SFB for years, it was about the andromedan PA panels and how they absorbed more power from a weapon than it took to fire the weapon.

I sent it in and got a very, very snarky and uncalled for reply from SVC. When I said I did not appreciate his uncalled for tone he exploded in a fit of petulance at me and essentially banned me from "his" universe.

Someone I'd respected and admired for a ling time turned out to be a petulant, spiteful, vindictive bully who could dish out the snark but exploded when someone said he was out of line.

(BTW, EVERY SFB player I ever discussed my idea on the andromedan PA panel energy abortionist issues said it was a good solution to the issue of how a PA panel absorbs uo to 9 points of energy form a phaser that took 1 point of energy to fire.)

I didn't like that much, kid. I sold off my huge SFB collection, dating back to the first boxed edition later, not wanting to support a game made by someone like that.

Also I didn't like his treatment of john hammer, and the childish way he rewrote every SFB article mentioning him to omit his name, then selling the reprinted material and getting people to buy reprinted material just to spite john hammer. That was a very rude treatment of the SFB public.

As I said, I'll never buy a product that he's involved with in any way.

 

[daryen]

As I said, I'll never buy a product that he's involved with in any way.

Good. You said your piece. You successfully pissed in the coffee. I hope it made you feel better.

Now go away so we can talk about the actual subject.

 

[daryen]

On the TL scale, what we are thinking about for the moment is to use the Traveller scale up to a point, then redefine things after that. So, you get something like this:
TL 1-8: Same as base Traveller. No changes.
TL 9-10: Same as base Traveller, but with no Jump Drive.
TL 11+: New tech levels that match the needs of Prime Directive.

Initially, I was thinking that the cutoff would actually be TL 11, rather than TL 10, but I am now thinking that TL 11 may be the better starting point for the Prime Directive TLs.

So, that would make the new tech levels as such:
TL 11: "Sublight" era. This sees the introduction of the "impulse engine" that replaces the older maneuver drives. The "big win" of impulse is that it provides an FTL capability.
TL 12: "Tactical Warp" era. This sees the introduction of the very first warp drives and the first anti-matter power plants. It is all new, slow, and bulky. This also sees the introduction of the related technologies like phasers and transporters.
TL 13: "Early Years" era. The technology developed and discovered in the prior TL is advanced and matured.
TL 14: "Main" era. Evolutionary improvements of these critical technologies are made. Warp engines work better. Phasers become more powerful. Transporters get longer range. The middle of this era includes the "TV Years". The end of this era contains much of the General War.
TL 15: "X" era. More evolutionary improvements. Warp can't go any faster, but it is much more efficient. Phasers become more versatile. Many technologies are sufficiently miniaturized allowing gunboats to be developed. This includes the end of the General War, and the succeeding wars (ISC and Andromedan).

The practical effect of this is that pretty much anything at TL 10 or 11 and less can be used with no changes. (Well, outside jump drive, of course.) Items with higher tech levels would then need to be permitted by the referee (if they aren't specifically addressed somewhere in the rules).

 

[AKAmra]

A personal favor to ask, as well. Can this thread not include personal comments about my boss? It makes me very unhappy and uncomfortable to read negative commentary when I have an entirely different perspective of him. I don't respond because the game is not about the person -- the game should rise or fall on its own merits and I cannot ask of you what I don't follow myself.

Well, kid, sometimes people say things you just don't like. It's part of life.

I supported SFB for a long time, having gotten into in in 1982 as a kid and stuck with it up to the doomsday edition and thru the long, long period where nothing was being published thanks to paramount (SPIT!) and it's legal action against ADB.

People were saying SFB was dead, and I kept refuting them for years.

When the "We're back!" CL came out I was overjoyed.

Later I had a solution to an issue that had been a pain in the ass for SFB for years, it was about the andromedan PA panels and how they absorbed more power from a weapon than it took to fire the weapon.

I sent it in and got a very, very snarky and uncalled for reply from SVC. When I said I did not appreciate his uncalled for tone he exploded in a fit of petulance at me and essentially banned me from "his" universe.

Someone I'd respected and admired for a ling time turned out to be a petulant, spiteful, vindictive bully who could dish out the snark but exploded when someone said he was out of line.

(BTW, EVERY SFB player I ever discussed my idea on the andromedan PA panel energy abortionist issues said it was a good solution to the issue of how a PA panel absorbs uo to 9 points of energy form a phaser that took 1 point of energy to fire.)

I didn't like that much, kid. I sold off my huge SFB collection, dating back to the first boxed edition later, not wanting to support a game made by someone like that.

Also I didn't like his treatment of john hammer, and the childish way he rewrote every SFB article mentioning him to omit his name, then selling the reprinted material and getting people to buy reprinted material just to spite john hammer. That was a very rude treatment of the SFB public.

As I said, I'll never buy a product that he's involved with in any way.

Jean has been very open and informative about PD:Traveller on this thread. You obviously have issues that predate the concerns of this thread so that I have no idea of what the hell your talking about.

Since you've already said your not interested in this product please move along. I for one have no interest or understanding about what your going on about.

 

[Nerroth]

My first real exposure to the Star Fleet Universe was when the first Starleet Command PC game came out. I read the manual for the various details about the fleets included (which included SFU-native empires like the Lyrans and Hydrans). It was interesting enough, though the different nature of the license didn't quite sink in at that stage; not least since Taldren added a few things here and there, and made their own changes to the setting (which, for those who haven't played the first few SFC games, is a sort of hybrid between the movie-era Franchise and the SFU).

Then, after a while, Starfleet Command II: Empires at War was released. I installed the game, then booted it up to play. The intro for the original SFC wasn't up to much; basically showing some ships shooting back and forth at each other. This time, the more steadily-paced intro (with far better music, I might add) actually told a story; one narrated by no less than George Takei himself!

And it left a lasting impression. Takei, as Captain Sulu (at least the incarnation of Sulu in the hybrid Taldren-verse) spoke of how "a galactic superpower", the Inter-Stellar Concordium, had aligned itself with the Organians; "they believe that only the military might of the Concordium can put an end to the wars still raging across our galaxy." Naturally, the Federation saw this as a bit at attempting "our complete subjugation"; which was a bit unfair, of course, since the ISC wouldn't have anything to complain about if those barbarian empires beyond its borders could just get their act together...

...but yeah. The ISC were the key spark that drove me to want to learn more about the in-print Star Fleet Universe, beyond the version seen in the video game.

(As it happened, the very first issue of Captain's Log I ever picked up happened to have a preview for the ISC in Federation and Empire! It's taken a while for them to make their formal introduction to that game system, but better late than never.)


Now, I will admit that it still took a little time for the differences between Taldren's take on the ISC and how they were in the "real" SFU to sink in; to understand why their ships looked so different, why there were no Meskeen (a species Taldren cooked up for them in the game that aren't present in the "real" ISC), just how big the ISC was on the F&E map relative to the other Alpha powers, etc etc. I got the hang of things eventually; though I did end up painting one of my ISC ships in a Taldren-inspired colour scheme. It wasn't my best painting work, however.


It's been a long time since then; well, not long when compared to the 20+years' worth of experience that older SFU alumni have had with the setting, perhaps. Still, in that time, I've been able to see a wide array of new worlds, settings and story threads emerge into print; not least the expanded history of the ISC itself.

These new avenues of exploration, which the SFU has seen created for it in the Alpha Octant and beyond, embody in my mind that which has made the Star Fleet Universe the distinct and vibrant setting it can be... if you're willing to give the things that make it what it is, as opposed to what it is not, the chance they truly deserve.


Long story short; I for one can thank the ISC for opening the door for my entry into the Star Fleet Universe. (Yes, that's right; you now know who to blame for how that annoying Irish fellow, who's probably more trouble than he's worth, got drawn to ADB in the first place...)

Much as it may seem not to be the case sometimes*, I cannot have been the only one on Earth to have been so inspired; and surely, over time, there would be others out there who may one day have their interest sparked by one of the unique aspects of the SFU, not simply drawn in because of bits and pieces from what they once saw on TV.

I would hope there would be enough room at the inn to go around.


*Sometimes, I've run into trouble, and let my enthusiasm for these aspects run away from me; to the point where I've exasperated those around me, to whom I end up giving the impression that I really am the only one around who cares about this or that partiuclar element. When that happens, it's hard not to feel discouraged; when you feel that your efforts, no matter how strongly you may feel about them, are at best going nowhere, and at worst are helping turn people against the very things you want to see succeed. So maybe the tagline in my sig is true; the above post should be taken as 0% information, after all...

 

[Scarecrow]

Well, kid, sometimes people say things you just don't like. It's part of life.

You might want to try that again, I don't think it was quite patronising enough. :roll:

Crow

 

[billclo]

As I said, I'll never buy a product that he's involved with in any way.

Okay, you got that off your chest. You know, there actually are bulletin boards where people can congregate and complain about SVC all to themselves. I can get you the URLs of a couple if you would like.

If you aren't going to add anything productive to the discussion, please stop trolling. I'm here to view discussion about the new product(s); I don't give a hoot about someone's 20+ year old beef with SVC.

 

[rust]

The practical effect of this is that pretty much anything at TL 10 or 11 and less can be used with no changes. (Well, outside jump drive, of course.) Items with higher tech levels would then need to be permitted by the referee (if they aren't specifically addressed somewhere in the rules).

Hmm ... if the warp drive is introduced at TL 11 / TL 12, does that mean
that TL 11 / TL 12 is the minimum for a starfaring culture, and there is no
interstellar colonization, trade, and so on, below that technology level ?

 

[Rick]

I'm going to go off on a slight tangent, but still PD related. Can anyone with a little more SFB knowledge help me out here on the Starfleet uniforms/insignia side of things.
From what I gather, SFB has done away with most of the security redshirts, starship security seems to be handled by a Marine contingent (presumably there is a very small master at arms redshirt section left), and gold shirts are worn by starship operations crew (helm, navigation, etc) and only the top 2 command personnel (Captain/First officer at a guess), whilst medical/science seems to be mainly unchanged.
Where are rank insignia worn? I've seen pictures of both collar insignia and cuff insignia but not on the same picture.
Also, any info or pictures of Starfleet Marine uniforms anywhere?

 

[Rambler]

The practical effect of this is that pretty much anything at TL 10 or 11 and less can be used with no changes. (Well, outside jump drive, of course.) Items with higher tech levels would then need to be permitted by the referee (if they aren't specifically addressed somewhere in the rules).

Hmm ... if the warp drive is introduced at TL 11 / TL 12, does that mean
that TL 11 / TL 12 is the minimum for a starfaring culture, and there is no
interstellar colonization, trade, and so on, below that technology level ?

No you still can find the occasional colony set up with either, Sleeper or Generational Ships. And yes I am going to let a story ideal hang out there, the exact character and his ship are a license no no but the plot is still valid in the SFU.