Prevalence of Magic in Hyboria

[rgrove0172]

Im still waiting my shipment of books and am straining at the bit to get started gaming in Hyboria. Reading the forum is my only outlet at the moment, along with a maniacle re-reading of my Conan library to prepare.

There is a great deal of discussion on magic and sorcery in the game. My initial feeling when discovering there was indeed a RPG centered around Howard's writing that magic would be a rarity, or at least almost always in the hands of the antagonist in an adventure. The thought of a player taking on the role of one of those evil and usually half mad sorcerers from the novels didnt even enter my mind.

In your campaigns is magic more or less on par with its rare appearance in the original stories or has our contact with D&D over the years pressed us into having the traveling magicians and wizard on every corner approach in Hyboria as well?

 

[MGBM]

Well, in my campaigns magic is rare, sorcerers are few and far between but there are quite a bit of mad people who will sacrifice anyone to demons or any of the dark gods of the Hyborian Age.

For instance, in my three years of Conan GMing, I've only introduced 3 magic objects. I like that magic is rare but powerful, that's how I GM Conan.

 

[VincentDarlage]

I play it on par with the original stories.

 

[Krushnak]

theres alot of magic in conan, just none of the frivolous crap that you get in normal d&d, it's always dark and very dangerous. because my players are now adventuring around the world they've quickly discovered how dark and weird the forgotten corners of the world are.

the only magic 'items' that they've gotten so far is a couple of barely legible spell books from novices. although one player is seeking to have a weapon made to be able to kill a demon that they got forced into making a deal with. so ive given them a long and dangerous quest to collect the materials to make this magic item and theres no guarantee it will even be magical.

 

[quigs]

I had a Scholar PC in my group up until this week when his brain was sucked out of his head by a monster. Its too bad too, because he was just starting to get powerful.

Now that he's gone though, and is thinking of making a more combat oriented character, I'm gonna experiment with the D&D classes for magic using NPC's, but trim down the spell lists and remove all the automatic spells each level, similar to what thulsa did on his site. Since I'm running some adventures out of DUNGEON magazine, this makes my job a little easier for converting everything.

 

[rgrove0172]

IM honestly considering making any sort of magic user off limits for players in my Hyborian campaign. I just dont see where a traveling novice sorcerer fits into the genre very well. (the little wizard off the films was fun and all but not very Howard, if you get my drift)

If someone wants to run a mage, I suppose I would work it out but the scheme of the game would have to be designed around it and his part in the game very delicatly balanced. Easier to just keep them all bad guys, where they belong.

 

[toothill man]

run as NPC unless a priest and spells and magic are dangerous and feared and always non standard even potions a smoke vial from shem could give off purple or red smoke while in stygia black with a faint oder of snake is order of the day so also the purple liquid could be anything from poison to healing to ink :twisted:

 

[urdinaran]

When I ran my campaign, I did not allow Scholar at the start; I wanted everyone to get a feel for the combat system first and also I realized that Scholar was not an easy class as its D20 equivalents.

 

[toothill man]

scholars is such a wide term it really has little meaning and unlike say d&d being a priest does not mean healing on tap and the egg head in the group cold be a ace historian but know diddly in the way of spells.but I like that as it prevents the players thinking just a wizard or just a cleric everyone with booklearning could be a problem and thats not even including shamans etc :twisted: :wink:

 

[bjorntfh]

Our group has had two "magic" weapons and currently retains one of them. Both were Graysteel blades (+1 to hit, +2 Ap, Hardness 20, 60 HP, cannot be reforged, Ghost Touch) one was a arming sword, the other a broad sword. We lost the arming sword when the noble who found it got stupid, went off alone and attacked a couple of spies, was killed, looted and dumped in a ditch. The weapons are REALLY nice, (we got offers of over 1.2K each) but they're seen as artifacts of a lost age rather than something we're going to find anywhere.

 

[DaveNC]

The only magic items we have in our game are one time use items, or a weapon that once it serves it's purpose (like slaying a particular monster/demon), it is destroyed or no longer retains it's magical properties.

 

[samagee]

I am glad to be playing in America where I am free to play as I like. A good portion of the GMs here sound like someone I would not give the time of day.

Please keep in mind that if you restrict your players, then they are essentially just walking along a story line.

 

[Trodax]

I am glad to be playing in America where I am free to play as I like.

:lol: Sweet!

You know, here in Sweden, I actually have to have a government representative sitting right next to me when I GM to check that I follow protocol. It's really frustrating at times, and that bastard always eats all the snacks too!

 

[rgrove0172]

LOL - thank you for that bit of nonsense Trodax, I was a bit perplexed at where the comment from samagee came from. I thought the discussion was pretty open - maybe he cross posted from some other argumentative thread?? :?:

 

[Bregales]

Don't worry, magic and magic users are as frequent as you want in your campaign (if you're the GM that is :twisted: ).

Me personally, in my first Conan game group we had the most devious player of the group ask to make up a sorcerer, and as I didn't receive my core book for another three weeks (I was GM but Amazon screwed me over royally with a very long wait even though I'd pre-ordered 6 months earlier, but I've ranted about that about a hundred times already ), I said sure, play whatever you want. (I was borrowing one of the guy's books to try to *help* everyone make up their characters. Though I didn't even own the core book yet, I was the only guy who knew the Howard stories backwards and forwards so felt confident). BOY WHAT AN ORDEAL THAT WAS!

My sorcerer player was sadistic, maniacal and overtly evil in his every thought and deed. I'd posted, created, and contributed in half a dozen threads about the problems with sorcerous scholar PCs and had a heck of a time. Eventually his evil character so chagrined the rest of the group that they quit the game altogether. Now, that's just my group. I was GMing in a fashion of "well people react to everything you do or say, but how long it takes them to do something depends on who you are, where you are, who they are, etc. So I had plans for major dunnage to rake down on ol' Akriphon, but the group quit outright on me, after all that compiling of the members of the Black Ring, statting up a 16th level scholar/2nd level master of the black ring, statting out Thoth Amon, etc.

Anyways, I tend to think sorcerers should NOT be commonplace. But as you will discover when you get the books, the books say that the average person in Hyboria has heard plenty about magic, but hardly anyone has experienced it. But as adventurers, that's where your player party differs from the average commoner. Again, I think magic is much better if the sorcery (very difficult both for player character - wait till you read about Corruption! :twisted: ) should be dark and mysterious, something to be feared and overcome by the players. But then again I'm the GM for a Pendragon campaign, and in that game system all PCs are knights. Imagine a party of soldiers only in deedle dee. The GMs job is to make the world dark, dangerous and exciting for the player characters.

Your job is to bring that mysterious excitement to your group. I think you've gotten some good advice in this thread for the most part. In the end, if you're the GM for your group, what you say goes, so you run the game how you want and damn anyone (on these boards) who blasts you for your opinion. We should be here to try to help each other, and yeah to give an opinion, but not to condemn or limit other gamers.

Anyways, hope that helps.

 

[rgrove0172]

Thanks Bregales, that was great.

I probably wont allow any player character mages for a while - at least not until I am good and comfortable with not only the rules but the dynamics of Hyborian sorcery as well.

Funny thing about magic, its described as a rarity in Hyboria yet it is present in almost every story (in fact it is present in everyone I can remember in some form) You have to chalk that up to the fact that Conan, and your player characters more than likely, are trafficking where your common citizen of Hyboria does not. Its a balancing act therefore for the GM, as you elude to, he has to maintain that aura of mystery and dread, despite the fact that its going to be a regular occurance.

Take for example your typical little Nemedia village. The villagers all know of a haunted valley, north of the village behind a notted cluster of stunted trees. Legends speak of unmentionable horrors within and a statue of green stone watching over a hoard of treasure sacrificed by savages in the dim past. The villagers have known about it for generations, but none go there - hell they wont even speak of the place without dobbing a wet finger to thier left temple in a counter gesture to bad luck. Your player characters however? Hell they wont be through thier first ale at the local tavern before they are wading through the brush, dead set on seeing old Greeny for themselves.

The norms of your world simply dont apply where adventurers are concerned.

 

[Krushnak]

when the players of my game first made characters i had the one who had successfully run mages in D&d and Hackmaster make a sorcerer. at lvl 3 when he attempted to use defensive blast against a group of picts intent on nailing him to a tree and using his teeth as necklace ornanments he rolled a 1 for the magic attack roll, so i asked him to make a will save to contain the magical power he'd summoned up and he got another 1. which resulted in him rolling on the runaway magic table and splattering the surounding picts in warm sorcerer gore and demonic fire. really helped to instill in my players a healthy respect and fear for all sorcery.

 

[Bregales]

Thanks Bregales, that was great.

I probably wont allow any player character mages for a while - at least not until I am good and comfortable with not only the rules but the dynamics of Hyborian sorcery as well.

Funny thing about magic, its described as a rarity in Hyboria yet it is present in almost every story (in fact it is present in everyone I can remember in some form) You have to chalk that up to the fact that Conan, and your player characters more than likely, are trafficking where your common citizen of Hyboria does not. Its a balancing act therefore for the GM, as you elude to, he has to maintain that aura of mystery and dread, despite the fact that its going to be a regular occurance.

Take for example your typical little Nemedia village. The villagers all know of a haunted valley, north of the village behind a notted cluster of stunted trees. Legends speak of unmentionable horrors within and a statue of green stone watching over a hoard of treasure sacrificed by savages in the dim past. The villagers have known about it for generations, but none go there - hell they wont even speak of the place without dobbing a wet finger to thier left temple in a counter gesture to bad luck. Your player characters however? Hell they wont be through thier first ale at the local tavern before they are wading through the brush, dead set on seeing old Greeny for themselves.

The norms of your world simply dont apply where adventurers are concerned.

EXACTLY!

Reading about your Nemedian village made me wonder if you'd read Conan the Magnificent I think, by Robert Jordan. I don't like Jordan's writing myself (well, I should say I don't like his Conan stories, partly because I don't get the feeling he liked the character, his secondary characters are given more narrative frame IMO).

Love the Nemedians dobbing their fingers to their left temples too!

The one thing the game strongly reminds us, however, is that sorcery is dark, corrupting, and damning to he who uses it. I thought the core book and the Scrolls of Skelos supplement did a nice job at emphasizing how it works. The one thing I will NOT allow in games henceforth is the Defensive Blast spell. It's a spell that allows a sorcerer, as a free action, to 'blow up' and while he's unharmed he causes major damage to any one, or thing maybe, around him. The spell was taken from a deedle dee sourcebook and has no place whatsoever in Hyboria, IMHO. But if you have a sorcerer who does use it in your group, take Vincent Darlage's stern recommendation, and make sure it's used defensively and not as a "Hey, watch me kill these 25 warriors for kicks 'cause I'm evil" route.

 

[Krushnak]

yeah ive changed defensive blast in my games to cause subdual damage instead of fire, so still handy in a pinch but not game stopping. also has the visual change based on what sorcery styles they favour ie: blue etheric for prestigitation, black flames for necromancy, and greenish-yellow fire for summoning.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Let's not desend into another 'Defensive Blast' debate again people, pretty please? :wink:

In any case I am the obvious exception here as I am in the process of reinveting the Sorcery system to suit my needs. Simply put while I like Conan and the Hyborian world to a degree I am actually more of a fan of the stripped down less twinky rule system instead. I've used Mongoose's rules system for other fantasy worlds with a darker bent and it works well. Thus I feel no need to try and run my game with Howard's narrative style foremost on my mind though it is always an influence. Written works and other people's stories are the starting point for most of my work, not the destination. Heck, even I don't know the destination of the story before it happens. I just guide it along. It's a magic all its own.

As for magic scarcity I agree that magic should always be something rare, wonerous and dangerous. Not necessarily evil, but something that if not properly used will destroy you. Like RL magic. 8)