Power - and the loss of it..

[Wistomaniac]

Okay - Just had an argument with one of my players about this, but I thought I would ask here to get some more oppinions on it.

Page 63 states the following:
[snip]If the test is succeeded, the character has integrated the rune and is said to be Rune Touched. He permanently loses one point of PoW[/snip]

Now I say that since the loss is permanent, you can never get it back - (which is what's implied by the word permanent) and this will put your cap down from 21 (as human) to 20.

Say you have the stuff needed to make 21 liters of a superfuel and there is no way to make any more of it, no matter what you do, you can't get more than that. So you make 10 liters - leaving 11 liters left. Now using 1 liter of it leaves you with 9 liters, but you can only go to 20 this time, since 1 liter is permanently used. (if that makes any sense)

My friend says that the cap doesn't go down and that in the end you can bind yourself to every different rune there is out there, and still get your power up to 21.

I think he's in the wrong, but this isn't really clear in the rulebook (MRQ main book)

So... who's right rulewise?

 

[weasel_fierce]

There's nothing to indicate the loss can not be regained with experience. Permanent is simply to make it distinct from temporary points (magic points, or POW being tied up by divine spells)

 

[Halfbat]

As W-F says, the distinction of saying "Permanent" is to just to say it cannot be regained through normal characteristic recovery - it can only be regained through characteristic improvement (e.g. 3 experience ticks).

That said, if you want to make the integration of Runes rare in your campaign, then do reduce the cap. Take care, though, as (imho) it will eventually seriously hamper spell-casters and enchanters as they will have a reduced base Magic Point pool on which to call, especially if you also permanently deduct POW from their cap even when making Enchanted items.

 

[frogspawner]

Sorry but he's right.

MRQ's gratuitous use of the word "permanent" just harks back to the old RQ2 days when Magic Points were referred to as "current POW" and characteristic POW was "permanent POW".

That said, I don't like this Mongoose invention of physical Runes, and integration of them for special powers. It's un-Gloranthan and silly. I thought it would cause lots of trouble, and your problem here is just one example.

So anything you can do to limit Runes/Integration is a good thing. Would you like some suggestions?

 

[frogspawner]

On second thoughts, stick to your guns!

I'm sure it was not the intent of the rules-writers - but who cares about them? Yours is a valid interpretation of MRQ's Rules As Written.

Just because "permanent" POW loss never worked like that in previous versions of RuneQuest doesn't matter - there were never physical Runes to be Integrated in previous versions of RQ either.

This "POW Cap" idea you've hit upon is great. It makes MRQ a bit better!

 

[Halfbat]

MRQ's gratuitous use of the word "permanent" just harks back to the old RQ2 days when Magic Points were referred to as "current POW" and characteristic POW was "permanent POW".

Not quite true. Whilst POW was used to power spells in earlier RQ and a differentiator was needed, in MRQ characters can temporarily lose characteristic points and regain them. It's important in MRQ to make the distinction between a temporary loss and a permanent loss.

Nowhere in the RAW does it say that integrating Runes (or anything else) reduces the maximum to which a characteristic (such as POW) can be increased.

So anything you can do to limit Runes/Integration is a good thing.

Is it Runes or Integration that's the problem? I think we're talking two different things, here.

Like you, I'm not over keen on the Integration aspects and numerous separate casting skills, either (one skill per Rune Spell in some cases, hence Petty-Magick). However, I can see the elegance of a Rune granting power _and_ (as has been said numerous times elsewhere) the RuneQuest pun is really quite nice.

 

[Quire]

the RuneQuest pun is really quite nice.

Now THERE'S a subject ripe for debate! :evil:

The pun is horrid. Truly, absolutely, and unequivocally horrid. For two reasons:

- It's the pun and the pun alone that has given rise to the current incarnation of Rune Magic and (ugh, gak gak, 'integration').

- It was ALREADY a 'pun', and didn't need such heavy-handed re-application. The name was all about the game being all about becoming a Runelord or Runepriest. A status which, sadly, has now been reduced to a Feat.

Sorry, HB, not trying to be negative, but had to present an opposing view if this has indeed been said numerous times elsewhere!

To get back to the opening post...you're wrong, and your player is right. However, it's your game, so play it however you want to.

- Q

 

[frogspawner]

It's important in MRQ to make the distinction between a temporary loss and a permanent loss.

OK, I don't know MRQ that well. Can you (or anyone) please quote examples of temporary and permanent losses in the MRQ rules, so we can see how they compare to the wording for Integration POW loss?

Is it Runes or Integration that's the problem? I think we're talking two different things, here.

Yeah, but without Integration (spit!) a Rune is just a stone. I wouldn't have a problem with that!

I quite like the RuneQuest pun too, but IMO it would be better if Integration were (very) rare. Not scooping half-a-dozen every week (ugh, gak, etc). I could live with it as a campaign-end achievement, and with serious drawbacks so that only a Rune-level character would dare attempt it even then - that'd be why they were called Rune Masters...