Points Build question

[cthulhudarren]

Hi I'm a newbie here, I played Runequest in the early 80's with the original book and then nothing until now. I'm trying to get my 3.5 ed D&D group to play a Runequest game with the new rules. They are interested in the realistic combat, and I've been trying to learn the rules.

In character creation, It seems to me that the 80 points build option leads to a weak character, essentially giving you all 11's and then 3 extra points. The other methods are pretty risky too, with 3D6 rolls and such.

I realize that you don't need the high stats like in D&D, but 80 still seems low to me. It'll be magic light as we try and learn the system. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Anyone have any more stat generation methods that are a little more generous (but not too much either)?

Thanks,

 

[simonh]

Anyone have any more stat generation methods that are a little more generous (but not too much either)?

80 isn't bad. It's very slightly better than the average from rolling randomly. RQ3 had points-build from 80 as an option. It's my preferred method if the GM insists on bare random rolls with no 'extras', because at least I can guarantee I won't get a realy crap character and will be at least decent at the things I care about.

Some previous BRP based games have used 2D6+6 for all characteristics, not just INT and POW. I used that method the last few times I ran RQ style games in Glorantha (I use a highly eclectic assemblage of rules from various BRP games).

Simon Hibbs

 

[Vagni]

I tend to use the roll 4D6 for each characteristic and pick the 3 rolls you want to use (or 3D6 for SIZ and INT and choose 2 rolls +6). I then allow the players to assign these rolls where they like.

It helps avoid crap rolls ruining your characteristics and tends to give a couple of good characteristic scores the player can assign that match the type of character he wants to play (sorcerer with a POW of 3 anyone?).

I once had a player who rolled up a dwarf using straight, unmodified rolls. Nearly all his dice rolls were 6's with a couple of 5's across the board! He called him Yatzee. :lol:

 

[Deleriad]

Hi I'm a newbie here, I played Runequest in the early 80's with the original book and then nothing until now. I'm trying to get my 3.5 ed D&D group to play a Runequest game with the new rules. They are interested in the realistic combat, and I've been trying to learn the rules.

In character creation, It seems to me that the 80 points build option leads to a weak character, essentially giving you all 11's and then 3 extra points. The other methods are pretty risky too, with 3D6 rolls and such.

I realize that you don't need the high stats like in D&D, but 80 still seems low to me. It'll be magic light as we try and learn the system. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Anyone have any more stat generation methods that are a little more generous (but not too much either)?

Thanks,

Well, for a human, 80 gives pretty much a slightly better than average character. Not very exciting but relatively functional. Easiest way to change it is to let then have more points. For example 84 points is the equivalent of all 12s.
Alternately, at 80 points they could get the following example arrays to choose from
18, 15, 11, 11, 10, 9, 6
16, 15, 13, 10, 10, 9, 7
15, 15, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9
Those seem like reasonably good characters and they tend to force the players into making choices:
want 3 CAs? Then you probably won't have much of a damage modifier. If you go for 3 CAs and a damage modifier then your INT & CHA will be low so you won't increase by experience as quickly.

On the other hand, random rolls are quite fun if you're all there at the table creating characters together. If your players are the type not to complain if they get bad rolls and not to get envious if someone else gets good rolls, then go for it. If you want to smooth it out a bit, have each player pick up 19 dice and roll them in a big pile then assign them to characteristics as they see fit (remember SIZ and INT are 2d6+6 so they'll assign two dice to each of those, not three). If you've been playing D&D for a while then creating random characters will make a break.

 

[cthulhudarren]

Thanks for the ideas. The folks I game with would hate playing a character with even all 12's, even though that's not a bad character in Runequest.

These folks love to powergame, so I am loath to allow them to roll and get crazy high stats. Perhaps some type of array is a good choice.

16,14,13,12,12,10,9 seems reasonable. (86). So somewhere in the mid eighties seems about right to me. Perhaps I can work out some kind of point buy system which allows some randomness.

How does this look?

roll 2d4:
roll point buy
------------------
2 82
3 83
4 84
5 85
6 86
7 87
8 88

 

[Vagni]

Thanks for the ideas. The folks I game with would hate playing a character with even all 12's, even though that's not a bad character in Runequest.

These folks love to powergame, so I am loath to allow them to roll and get crazy high stats. Perhaps some type of array is a good choice.

16,14,13,12,12,10,9 seems reasonable. (86). So somewhere in the mid eighties seems about right to me. Perhaps I can work out some kind of point buy system which allows some randomness.

How does this look?

roll 2d4:
roll point buy
------------------
2 82
3 83
4 84
5 85
6 86
7 87
8 88

Not a bad idea, it still gives them a chance of a good roll and they are still above average. Don't forget you can start them at an advanced level as well with an addition for characteristic points, see the table in the Core rules p.21, but this does boost their skill points and everything else as well.

Another thing you could do is remind them they can save Improvement Points to buy characteristic boosts during the game.

I have also house ruled that Hero Points can be traded in as IP's for buying characteristic improvements only, at an exchange rate of 1HP = 2IP's. This is expensive enough to make them think about the trade but does mean they can boost a poor characteristic fairly easily as well. They do tend to forgo Heroic Abilities for a while, but it does ultimately mean they can boost a characteristic to 15 to at least think about getting a Heroic Ability at some point!

Maybe you could house rule that, at character creation, a certain number of Free Skill Points can be used to buy characteristic improvements instead. Maybe 5 or 10 Free Skill Points for 1 characteristic point?

 

[PhilHibbs]

I just gave my players 85 points.

 

[Loz]

Let them use the advanced character options (seasoned, veteran, etc). If they're power gamers, they'll get more out of it.

 

[cthulhudarren]

Those high starting skill %'s are off-putting for this old school guy who remembers when you started off less with than 50% on your weapons and parries.

My plan is a simple start with all country bumpkins player characters, sandbox setting, no one very powerful and not even any simple magic. I can have some old hermit teach them heal spells for driving off wolves or something later.

I'd like them to start off pretty inexperienced, but with good potential (decent ability scores).

 

[PhilHibbs]

Those high starting skill %'s are off-putting for this old school guy who remembers when you started off less with than 50% on your weapons and parries.
...
I'd like them to start off pretty inexperienced, but with good potential (decent ability scores).

I agree - starting characters are already very competent. I like the idea of better-than-average people who are at the beginning of their career.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

If you've been playing D&D for a while then creating random characters will make a break.

:shock: I've never played D&D with anything other than Random Characters

(nor RQ come to that EDIT Sorry, except for the Living Glorantha game at Contimuum of course)

 

[TrippyHippy]

Considering that the direct application of the Characteristics is in calculating the baseline skills, I personally find the 80 points amount about bang on.

I mean, you could argue that it gives each Characteristic an average score of 10, with 10 points bonus if you like. I also think everything is relative - if all the PCs are built from the same basis, and don't have preconceptions about what the levels mean (i.e. they don't compare the scores to D&D!), then actually having an average score of 11.5 or so is pretty reasonable.

If you look at it in another way, you could basically pick two Characteristics as Primes (a la Castles and Crusades) which are based at a value of 15, and have everything else at a rating of 10. Makes baseline skills easy to calculate....

 

[cthulhudarren]

Considering that the direct application of the Characteristics is in calculating the baseline skills, I personally find the 80 points amount about bang on.

I mean, you could argue that it gives each Characteristic an average score of 10, with 10 points bonus if you like. I also think everything is relative - if all the PCs are built from the same basis, and don't have preconceptions about what the levels mean (i.e. they don't compare the scores to D&D!), then actually having an average score of 11.5 or so is pretty reasonable.

If you look at it in another way, you could basically pick two Characteristics as Primes (a la Castles and Crusades) which are based at a value of 15, and have everything else at a rating of 10. Makes baseline skills easy to calculate....

Well said. It's food for thought. It's been decades since I've played Runequest.