Point Defence (Gunner)

George Kelln

Banded Mongoose
Spaceship A is being attacked by 5x missiles from Spaceship B.
Spaceship C is tasked to guard Spaceship A and is located between Spaceships A & B.

Can Spaceship C uses it 2x turret-mounted dual lasers as Point Defence to attempt to destroy the missiles as the fly by?
 
Yes, but...
Spaceship C needs to be running Point Defence/1 (for Close range between defending ships) or /2 software (Short range) - a Highguard option on p. 75 of the updated edition. Not cheap, MCr8 or 12 respectively and 12 or 15 bandwidth required.
 
Yes, but...
Spaceship C needs to be running Point Defence/1 (for Close range between defending ships) or /2 software (Short range) - a Highguard option on p. 75 of the updated edition. Not cheap, MCr8 or 12 respectively and 12 or 15 bandwidth required.
Geir - thanks!
 
I think it depends on which books you have access to.

There's also the five percent tonnage close escort rule; and for some reason, I imagine you could intercept the missiles with the fighter screen midflight.
 
I would rule that Ship C could use Electronic Warfare actions against the missiles anytime between launch and impact. Without the Point Defense software ship C would have to maneuver so that the missiles pass within Adjacent range (less than 1 km) to take the point defense action against them. To make things interesting for the defenders, there might be a chance that some or all of the missiles get confused and switch targets to ship C as it moves to interpose itself between them and Ship A. If that does happen then it still counts as "defending" ship A, I suppose.
 
Five percent tonnage close escort rule??

Adjacent range is technically not mentioned in the Pont Defence/X software, so I suppose an interpretation could lead to allowing a ship within Adjacent range to apply point defence to its neighbor, perhaps with the possible issues Dick Turpin mentioned. After posting the comment on needing the software, I did go looking through a few books looking for a definitive rule on Adjacent-range point defence, but couldn't find one. But there are many books...

The wording of the Point Defence software description (basically: 'it's really complicated calculations') would imply that it isn't possible. However, in principle, there is little practical difference between firing from a turret on an outrigger versus firing from a fighter hovering near its mothership like a remora.
 
I think it depends on which books you have access to.

There's also the five percent tonnage close escort rule; and for some reason, I imagine you could intercept the missiles with the fighter screen midflight.
At least in MGT2, it still requires Point Defense software, as far as I'm aware. The old High Guard has identical stats for that software.
And you can intercept missiles mid-flight without PD software by using a fighter screen, but the book does specify that you need to be deliberately positioning fighters to do so - space is big, and missiles are small.

Five percent tonnage close escort rule??
Traveller Companion, p161.
A vessel may also be protected from missile or small craft attack by close escorts. A close escort acts as a ‘goalkeeper’ for the target ship, firing at missiles and small craft as they fly past...

A vessel cannot have more than 10% of its tonnage as close escorts. This tonnage can be made up of small craft or starships, or any mix of both.
It's 10%, not 5%, but I think that's what they're referring to.
 
Traveller Companion, p161.

It's 10%, not 5%, but I think that's what they're referring to.
Yeah, that's likely it. Serves me right for using 'Adjacent' as the search term. For consistency, I suppose the close escort rule should be assumed to cover Adjacent range.
 
Also, you can make a run for it, which if it doesn't create enough space time between you and the missile(s), you do increase the fifty percent chance it could wander off, and increase the potential engagement time.
 
I would rule that Ship C could use Electronic Warfare actions against the missiles anytime between launch and impact. Without the Point Defense software ship C would have to maneuver so that the missiles pass within Adjacent range (less than 1 km) to take the point defense action against them.
Am I reading the rules correctly, all Point Defence Hardware (lasers and PD batteries) are REACTIONS. You can't "attack" missiles with lasers or PD Batteries. Point Defence allows the defender a REACTION roll to reduce the number of incoming threats before the missile salvo rolls attacks. Does the Point Defense SOFTWARE Range (Short / Close) grant a ship the ability to use a REACTION to intercept missiles that are about to make attack rolls on other ships at those ranges only? PD Software does not allow a ship being targeted with missiles to use PD software to make a REACTION roll (or otherwise intercept) incoming missiles at close or short range?

I think the below EW could be interpreted to mean that a single ship can only make a single EW check (attack) against a salvo. It does not limit the number salvos a ship can EW attack, nor the number of ships that can EW attack a single salvo? But the EW ship can only use EW against salvos directed at the defending ship or directed at another ship within close range of the EW ship.

"... use the Electronic Warfare action to destroy or misdirect incoming missiles before they impact their vessel or another ship
within Close range."

"Electronic Warfare may be performed upon a salvo multiple times over several rounds, with the effects being cumulative. However, a salvo may only be subjected to Electronic Warfare once per round, no matter how many sensor operators are available."
 
Yes, Point Defense is a Reaction, so someone has to be in the Gunner Role to do so. The ship does not do so on its own with PD Software. PD Software is to allow a ship's weapons to make a reaction to defend another ship in those ranges. So the convoy escorts can defend the merchant ships from the pirates' missiles, not just themselves.

EW is limited to once per turn regardless of how many EW stations the ship has. Additional stations can do other EW actions or try to stop salvos aimed at other eligible targets.

If you want your ship to do the PD reaction itself, you need Virtual Crew or Virtual Gunners filling the Gunner role.
 
I think the below EW could be interpreted to mean that a single ship can only make a single EW check (attack) against a salvo. It does not limit the number salvos a ship can EW attack, nor the number of ships that can EW attack a single salvo? But the EW ship can only use EW against salvos directed at the defending ship or directed at another ship within close range of the EW ship.
There are two limits:
  • A missile salvo can only be targeted by a single EW action per turn.
  • A ship can only perform as many sensor tasks as it has sensor operators per turn.
So, a ship can EW several salvoes each turn, and no matter how many ships you have, only one ship can EW a specific salvo.
 
There are two limits:
  • A missile salvo can only be targeted by a single EW action per turn.
  • A ship can only perform as many sensor tasks as it has sensor operators per turn.
So, a ship can EW several salvoes each turn, and no matter how many ships you have, only one ship can EW a specific salvo.
Thanks as always AD! Any thoughts on the logic behind not letting three ships EW the same salvo in one round? I sort of understand letting one ship EW a salvo just once. Even though with a dozen sensor operators, the same ship could EW a dozen different salvos, just not the same one twice.
 
Yes, Point Defense is a Reaction, so someone has to be in the Gunner Role to do so. The ship does not do so on its own with PD Software. PD Software is to allow a ship's weapons to make a reaction to defend another ship in those ranges. So the convoy escorts can defend the merchant ships from the pirates' missiles, not just themselves.

EW is limited to once per turn regardless of how many EW stations the ship has. Additional stations can do other EW actions or try to stop salvos aimed at other eligible targets.

If you want your ship to do the PD reaction itself, you need Virtual Crew or Virtual Gunners filling the Gunner role.
Thank You V, your response and writing this is helping me answer my own questions. Let me know if I am missing something.

PD SOFTWARE is not needed to run PD Batteries, so PD Batteries cannot be extended to close or short range using the PD SOFTWARE. PD SOFTWARE is a seperate beast that turns ordinary turrets into PD weapons.

"A point-defence laser battery consists of linked short-ranged laser turrets controlled by their own automated computer. This removes the need for separate gunners dedicated to point defence, needing only a command from the bridge to activate... A point-defence battery automatically intercepts missile and torpedo salvoes just before they make their own attack rolls." - High Guard 2022 p. 40
 
Laser Turrets and Point Defense Batteries are able to do Point Defence. Point Defense Batteries take up 20 dtons of space and a lot of power because they have their own built in computer systems for automating fire control. Turrets need someone (a virtual gunner or real gunner) controlling them to take the Point Defence reaction. PD Software is entirely unrelated to taking a PD reaction.

That reaction can only target missiles coming at your ship. The range *to* the missile is not relevant.

The relevant rule is:

Point Defence may only be performed against missile salvos (see page 172) as they are about to make their attack roll against a target – missiles are too small and too fast to be targeted at greater ranges.

The range at which missiles are "about to make their attack roll against a target" is Medium. Once a missile is in medium range, it is hitting that turn.

What Point Defence Software does is allow any Point Defence weapon (turret or battery) to defend another ship against missiles fired at that other ship. It has no effect at all on missiles fired at your ship. The ranges (Close or Short) is the distance between your ship and the ship you want to defend. Not the distance to the missiles.

The Imperial Close Escort Notonmywatch is protecting a trio of fat traders from missile attacks by a pirate fleet. The Pirates are at Long Range. They launch missiles. So there is 1 turn where the missiles approach and then on the second turn, the missiles hit.

MV Just Another Rustbucket is staying Close to Notonmywatch. MV Party Girl is a bit further away, at Short Range. MV Doing My Own Thing is making a run for it and is now at Medium range from Notonmywatch, which still leaves it within Long Range of the Pirates.

The round the missiles are launched and the round they are going to hit, those missile salvos are subject to Electronic Warfare if there is someone taking the Sensor Ops role on the ship. The Sensor Ops on Notonmywatch can make EW actions against missiles aimed at their their own ship and Just Another Rustbucket because that ship is in Close Range. So, assuming two crewed sensor stations, the missile salvos aimed at Notonmywatch & Rustbucket will endure two EW attempts (one each per turn of missile travel time). Rustbucket, even if it had sensor ops, can't do anything more because only 1 EW per salvo per turn and Notonmywatch is doing that for the missiles aimed at it. The other two merchant ships probably don't have anyone one Sensor Ops duty, so missiles aimed at them probably don't have any effective EW directed their way. But if they did, the EW attempt is at -2 because of the lousy sensor suites on merchant ships.

On that second turn, all four missile salvos are going to hit with whatever survived the two EW attempts. If Notonmywatch does not have any PD software, it is every ship for itself. The escort can only defend itself and each merchant has to try to defend itself with any manned laser turrets it has.

With PD Software 1, Notonmywatch can split its PD between its own defence and the defence of Rustbucket, because Rustbucket is within Close range of Notonmywatch. If Notonmywatch has PD Software 2 running, it can allocate its PD to the salvoes against itself, Rustbucket, or Party Girl because Party Girl is within short range. At no point can Notonmywatch do anything to protect Doing My Own Thing, because it is at Medium range from Notonmywatch.

So, each of the merchant ships will fire any manned laser turrets at the missiles coming at their own ship. Notonmywatch will divide its options amongst whichever ships its level of PD software allows it to cover.
 
1. I always interpreted the missile attack roll to be performed in the same round that they are about to reach the target, considering differing acceleration factors.

2. Which would mean that point defence perks up as they detect that the missiles start making final course corrections, and turning in their direction.

3. I would think it has less to do with the range of the point defence involved, rather than the capability to react in that combat round to the perceived, and allocated, threat.

4. Electronic warfare would be selecting the best result for effect, if more than one attempt could, and was, made.

5. Point defence would be equal parts attritional and fratricidal, since the same missile could be targetted independently by differing weapon stations, in that same combat round.
 
>>> The range at which missiles are "about to make their attack roll against a target" is Medium. Once a missile is in medium range, it is hitting that turn.
Thanks V. That's what I missed. If MV Party Girl makes a run from a missile salvo, she can add maybe one or two extra rounds before the salvo gets to medium range (depending on her M Drive rating - The MV PartyGirl class often have a fast drive: M5 or M6)
Missile Launch: +10 Ship: -6 (still at long range) +10 -6 (still at long) +10 -6 (Medium Range, roll laser PD reactions).
 
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