PoD - Oleb

[J. L. Brown]

Im not finding the virtual mining software in High Guard Update 2022. Did it get removed?

It was not moved forward to the 2022 update; I do not know whether the Mongeese have decreed that it no longer exists. Being present in High Guard meant thinking of it as an option to help pay off ships -- which it was not very useful for, because ships (and ship-board computers) are amazingly expensive. But it was there, and might be an option for giving players a break from the hustle.

But the way the rules for the software were written, it could be run on any computer with at least one bandwidth -- which leads to ideas like robots buying themselves off by running Virtual Miner. Some of that is cool stories, but it also leads to paying off a suit of armor (or a weapon) by running Virtual Miner on the Computer Weave. Nobody thought this out; nobody put this in front of a group of player-testers -- and it shows.

The production of Pirates of Drinax shows a deliberate choice to approach the campaign as error-prone money-grab. Mongoose chose NOT to follow standard 'wait until it is finished, then sanity check' methodology; they chose 'immediately sell whatever these writers come up with independently'. Pirates of Drinax had a great foundation to start, and to a large degree that has saved it; but serious problems were allowed in -- and that was a choice. Mongoose can do, and needs to do, better.

 

[Terry Mixon]

It was not moved forward to the 2022 update; I do not know whether the Mongeese have decreed that it no longer exists. Being present in High Guard meant thinking of it as an option to help pay off ships -- which it was not very useful for, because ships (and ship-board computers) are amazingly expensive. But it was there, and might be an option for giving players a break from the hustle.

But the way the rules for the software were written, it could be run on any computer with at least one bandwidth -- which leads to ideas like robots buying themselves off by running Virtual Miner. Some of that is cool stories, but it also leads to paying off a suit of armor (or a weapon) by running Virtual Miner on the Computer Weave. Nobody thought this out; nobody put this in front of a group of player-testers -- and it shows.

The production of Pirates of Drinax shows a deliberate choice to approach the campaign as error-prone money-grab. Mongoose chose NOT to follow standard 'wait until it is finished, then sanity check' methodology; they chose 'immediately sell whatever these writers come up with independently'. Pirates of Drinax had a great foundation to start, and to a large degree that has saved it; but serious problems were allowed in -- and that was a choice. Mongoose can do, and needs to do, better.

Could you screen capture it and post it here? I might still use it.

 

[Endie]

It was not moved forward to the 2022 update; I do not know whether the Mongeese have decreed that it no longer exists. Being present in High Guard meant thinking of it as an option to help pay off ships -- which it was not very useful for, because ships (and ship-board computers) are amazingly expensive. But it was there, and might be an option for giving players a break from the hustle.

But the way the rules for the software were written, it could be run on any computer with at least one bandwidth -- which leads to ideas like robots buying themselves off by running Virtual Miner. Some of that is cool stories, but it also leads to paying off a suit of armor (or a weapon) by running Virtual Miner on the Computer Weave. Nobody thought this out; nobody put this in front of a group of player-testers -- and it shows.

The production of Pirates of Drinax shows a deliberate choice to approach the campaign as error-prone money-grab. Mongoose chose NOT to follow standard 'wait until it is finished, then sanity check' methodology; they chose 'immediately sell whatever these writers come up with independently'. Pirates of Drinax had a great foundation to start, and to a large degree that has saved it; but serious problems were allowed in -- and that was a choice. Mongoose can do, and needs to do, better.

It’s viewed very widely as an all-time great campaign, and those of us have actually run it (and continue to do so) tend to agree with that. The idea that it’s barely saved by the foundations doesn’t agree with the reality that you’ll experience at the table.

Edit: a money grab is also a wild idea for a campaign that was released for free for years. It was the absolute opposite of “sell whatever these writers [writer: Gareth Hanrahan]” come up with. It was ongoing for literal years before being bound and sold, with vast amounts of reviews and feedback over those years. With a decade of playtest history both Hanrahan and others can now see how to tidy it, but there’s a world of difference between that and “it was a cash grab” on a release that was free for ages.

 

[Jet_Black]

I didn’t see that. Which one is it and where in the interview?

I think he refers to this interview:

The relevant part is starting at 13:02.

 

[Endie]

I think he refers to this interview:

The relevant part is starting at 13:02.

That’s precisely the bit I was referring to, thanks.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It’s viewed very widely as an all-time great campaign, and those of us have actually run it (and continue to do so) tend to agree with that. The idea that it’s barely saved by the foundations doesn’t agree with the reality that you’ll experience at the table.

Edit: a money grab is also a wild idea for a campaign that was released for free for years. It was the absolute opposite of “sell whatever these writers [writer: Gareth Hanrahan]” come up with. It was ongoing for literal years before being bound and sold, with vast amounts of reviews and feedback over those years. With a decade of playtest history both Hanrahan and others can now see how to tidy it, but there’s a world of difference between that and “it was a cash grab” on a release that was free for ages.

I will agree that it is an all-time great campaign. It is my favorite of all time, as a player and as a Referee. It was actually the reason I came back to Traveller after so many years away. It was a great re-introduction to Charted Space for me. It has its issues. What those issues are is known. Why they exist, I cannot say. The PoD I bought was the redone one for MgT2, so I don't know any of the history of it. The creativity in it was top-notch though and I love Gareth's writing style.

 

[Terry Mixon]

That’s precisely the bit I was referring to, thanks.

After having listened to it, I agree that sometimes the adventure calls for a different ship, but if it can't be duplicated under the rules, that's bogus. The rules are what allow us to be consistent and the lack of consistency on a continual basis isn't a case-by-case choice. It's a lack of attention to detail and care.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I think he refers to this interview:

The relevant part is starting at 13:02.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[wintertraveller]

It’s viewed very widely as an all-time great campaign, and those of us have actually run it (and continue to do so) tend to agree with that.

I agree with this. PoD is an all-time great campaign.

 

[wintertraveller]

I will agree that it is an all-time great campaign. It is my favorite of all time, as a player and as a Referee. It was actually the reason I came back to Traveller after so many years away. It was a great re-introduction to Charted Space for me. It has its issues. What those issues are is known. Why they exist, I cannot say. The PoD I bought was the redone one for MgT2, so I don't know any of the history of it. The creativity in it was top-notch though and I love Gareth's writing style.

Yes, +1

 

[Maxijohndoe]

Why Piracy? The closest RL example I can think of is Elizabethan England.

You have a relatively tiny nation on the edge of a massive, hostile polity (Catholic Europe or the Aslan in PoD). You need wealth not just to survive but also to expand.

You can trying starting colonies, building up slowly, trading for wealth. Or you can raid and take other peoples' stuff and get rich fast!

With Drinax they also have the chip on the shoulder of being the remnant of the Sindal Empire. Dreams of Imperial glory coupled with fear and desperation drives the push to piracy.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Why Piracy? The closest RL example I can think of is Elizabethan England.

You have a relatively tiny nation on the edge of a massive, hostile polity (Catholic Europe or the Aslan in PoD). You need wealth not just to survive but also to expand.

You can trying starting colonies, building up slowly, trading for wealth. Or you can raid and take other peoples' stuff and get rich fast!

With Drinax they also have the chip on the shoulder of being the remnant of the Sindal Empire. Dreams of Imperial glory coupled with fear and desperation drives the push to piracy.

Well yes -- but piracy pays so incredibly poorly, especially the way it is set up in this campaign. Regular speculative trade is far less dangerous, does not involve the risk of costly repairs, or worsening diplomatic relations, and pays FAR more money. So, if a minor power needs a bunch of cash, 'Why Piracy'?

My fix on this (aside from making piracy more profitable) is to approach piracy as a political necessity -- none of the systems throughout the Trojan Reach are interested in Drinaxi diplomacy at all. They remember tyranny, and have been doing just fine for themselves over the past 200+ years, thankyouverymuch. So Drinax needs those other systems to have a crisis; something that makes them desperate & willing to bargain -- something Drinax can solve. Piracy that Drinax is secretly sponsoring fits the bill.

The campaign hand-waves this with the 'Haven' mechanic -- but that implies that those systems KNOW that Drinax = Pirates; and that would actually be disastrous. 'Standing' similarly ties piracy to the opinions towards Drinax; another thing which would be a fatal crisis if the major powers discovered.

 

[Maxijohndoe]

Piracy, or Privateering as it is in this case, is both for profit and for politics.

Drinax has Asim as a colony but it really doesn't have a huge range of goods to sell. Plus there are other pirate groups in the region operating out of Theev and of course the Oghma raiders.

So you are a thief in a sea of theives.

So the idea is steal cargo and ships, sell the cargo and build up a fleet because

Spoiler: POD plot

there is a massive space battle at the end against the Aslan.

So yes you can do speculative trade buy you make even more money stealing other peoples' stuff and selling that. And you can take their ships too.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Piracy, or Privateering as it is in this case, is both for profit and for politics.

Drinax has Asim as a colony but it really doesn't have a huge range of goods to sell. Plus there are other pirate groups in the region operating out of Theev and of course the Oghma raiders.

So you are a thief in a sea of theives.

So the idea is steal cargo and ships, sell the cargo and build up a fleet because
[Spoiler deleted]

So yes you can do speculative trade buy you make even more money stealing other peoples' stuff and selling that. And you can take their ships too.

'Taking their ships' is an Infamous Incident; it is against the 'unwritten code of the stars' and heavily penalized -- in addition to the standing hit from 'Stealing Cargo'. Stolen goods must be fenced, and return a small fraction (between 10% and 30%) of their usual value.

The way the Piracy rules are laid out in the Campaign makes piracy pointless or counterproductive.

 

[Condottiere]

You could try shipping insurance.

 

[Garran]

'Taking their ships' is an Infamous Incident; it is against the 'unwritten code of the stars' and heavily penalized -- in addition to the standing hit from 'Stealing Cargo'.

Unless you hit other pirates, which is actually a viable option in the region.

Alternately - if you're willing to be ruthless enough and pick your times and places carefully - you won't take a reputation hit if no one's left to connect you to it.

In the middle there's the fact that an awful lot of local authorities (or elements within them) are probably fine with taking a bribe to look the other way, and unlike in the Imperium there's little to no oversight to catch that sort of thing.


Having the Floating Palace as a base also solves some of the other issues: rebranding a captured ship becomes much easier when you've got the tech to do it and tacit government support for doing so, for starters.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Alternately - if you're willing to be ruthless enough and pick your times and places carefully - you won't take a reputation hit if no one's left to connect you to it.

Which adds 'Atrocity' to the negative modifiers; and pray that there are no recordings, talkative crew, floating bodies, or any paper trail that EVER connect you to the target. In addition to the 2d6+1 hit to standing, you are talking about a +8 modifier to the Pirate Response Index (Drinaxian Companion, p 69); and at least a -4 penalty to 'the airlock pitch' if you are ever captured.

Having the Floating Palace as a base also solves some of the other issues: rebranding a captured ship becomes much easier when you've got the tech to do it and tacit government support for doing so, for starters.

Scrubbing all the security and identification from a ship is not quick, easy, nor cheap; this is covered in the Drinaxian Companion p 10. Doing this at the Floating Palace is almost certainly going to work its' way back to GeDeCo through Rachando, and to the 3I at large through Thao Poloc.

Being callous murder-hobos is NOT supposed to be the tone of this campaign. Have fun however you like at your table; but PoD is a great opportunity for swashbuckling & skullduggery.

 

[Garran]

Which adds 'Atrocity' to the negative modifiers; and pray that there are no recordings, talkative crew, floating bodies, or any paper trail that EVER connect you to the target. In addition to the 2d6+1 hit to standing, you are talking about a +8 modifier to the Pirate Response Index (Drinaxian Companion, p 69); and at least a -4 penalty to 'the airlock pitch' if you are ever captured.


Scrubbing all the security and identification from a ship is not quick, easy, nor cheap; this is covered in the Drinaxian Companion p 10. Doing this at the Floating Palace is almost certainly going to work its' way back to GeDeCo through Rachando, and to the 3I at large through Thao Poloc.

Being callous murder-hobos is NOT supposed to be the tone of this campaign. Have fun however you like at your table; but PoD is a great opportunity for swashbuckling & skullduggery.

Again, it only adds those modifiers if you can be connected to it. Managing a hit like that undetected and without evidence (and someone coming to look soon enough to find it) is unlikely in the Imperium, but possible in the Reach, especially off the major trade routes. The campaign doesn't encourage it, but it does allow for the possibility that the PCs play things that way.

GeDeCo - maybe, but even then they probably don't care all that much unless it's interfering with their own activities. Thao could be more of an issue but he's also much easier to avoid or distract. Again, I'm not saying that this is a super-easy and wonderful way to go about it, but it is a workable option in this one, unlike most Imperium-based campaigns.