Playtest - Whitestar

[Hindsight]

I'm not sure how I can respond to that. It is clear the White Star has touched you in a very bad place. I want you to reflect on this, and make sure you always have an adult near by, in the event the White Star tries to touch you again.

What I'm hearing, is that because a guy, who no one wants to play anymore, abused allies, and used the White Star, to win games, that it needs to be nerfed. I haven't seen many "OMG ISA Wins GenCon" posts like I do for others, and I know there are just as many other strong options in other fleets. I'm sure that guy would have beaten you with any fleet he'd tried, some people just go for the win, no matter what.

They're why I don't play Tournaments, in this game, or any other. The people drawn to those types of play, they just aren't fun to BS with like a good casual player, who don't rely on the game to fill some hole in their life. I'm married, have a job, a kid, this is a hobby, not a lifestyle.

Myself, and many other ISA players that have spoke just in the past few weeks, have also stated they are not happy with the sculpts on the Gunship and the Carrier. So because you say they aren't so bad, we should suck it up yes?

And for the record, those earth creatures with beaks and white feathers, go quack... those are called cats Rawwar, cats.

 

[H]

not the most appropriate post given some of the situations we already have on here. perhaps you would like to make fun of his Dyslexia too.

can we all stop and think a little, this place is becoming increasingly hostile, intentionally or not. yes, yes, it's me being concerned about it hypocritical etc, but certain posters seem to be going out of their way to continually provoke reactions. Thats highly mature isn't it?, and will definately be a big bonus in improving the game. That my friend is what we all want to achieve no?

 

[skavendan]

Warp bombing is a seperate issue to the whitestar but it is true that is it very broken thing to do with blue stars.

 

[McKickaha]

And by the way - Hindsight, the nibbled to death by ducks reference is a quote from the show. Lando I believe

 

[Hindsight]

The one he referenced, the earth creatures that go quack, is a joke because it isn't cats, its ducks. He left out the funny part.

"Vir, how many gods are there in our pantheon? I've lost count since the last emperor was elevated to godhood.
"48. No, no, 49, 50 if you count Zuug but, you know, I never thought you should--"
"All right, let's say 50."
"50."
"Now out of that 50, how many gods do you think I must have offended to have ended up with G'Kar's teeth buried so deeply in my throat that I can barely breathe?"
"All of them?"
"Sounds right. And now I have to go back to the Council and explain to them that in the interest of peace the Centauri government will agree to give quadrant 37 to the Narns. I think I will stick my head in the station's fusion reactor. It would be quicker. And I suspect, after a while I might even come to enjoy it. But this .. this, this, this is like being nibbled to death by .. what are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet .. go 'quack'?"
"Cats."
"Cats. I'm being nibbled to death by cats."
- From "Chrysalis"

It is obvious that Rawwar has been abused by an ISA player. That said, what he brought up was issues with the game, not the White Star. That is what I have said many times, the thread is "White Star" lets keep it on topic.

He makes a lot of blanket statements that I have the best Raid Ship in the fleet, I think Triggy said top 5 when he showed the math, so in that saying it is the best implies it is broken, and I really can't agree with that. Tell me why its broken, and again, I'll address points, not just blanket descriptions that really don't address anything we can change or address.

So we have Rawwar, who comes at this at a disadvantage, because in his eyes, we're just a completely broken fleet, because of what one guy did, a guy that no one wants to play with any more, and you've got me frustrated that he comes into this with his mind already made up. What is more conductive to discussion? Yea, hard to say =) I guess you could say that it is up to me to win him over, with love and compassion, but its late, and I'm tired, so what you see is what you get =)

 

[H]

if you care to trawl the forums, many people have stated many times the problem with the ISA fleet/WS, Likewise the ISA players will have stated time and again that the fact THEY don't want to use allies, means that the Whitestar is as it is blah blah. The whole Whitestar issue is like nailing jelly to a tree. but lets remain Civil, and not stray into the realms of the offensive. Yes sure, I knew what you were saying, but all we need is one crackpot do gooder to come on here and see you commenting on "touching" and who knows what would happen!

 

[Rawwar]

Perhaps but I was there it was definitely like being gnawed by ducks, I was wanting to quit because the outcome was obvious by the gnawing was going to be quite a drawn out affair. I’m rubbish at direct quotes anyway from films as it happens.

The unfortunate thing is we are all adults and when I came out with the life thing just as you have I got told I’d gone too far??

To be fair to our group no one has tried to JPB since and our ISA player has toned it down a little however in our forthcoming campaign he’s been allowed allies again and I’ve just completely lost interest.

In fact it’s only these rules changes that has got me playing at all and if they don’t fix things I’ll wonder off in oblivion with my girlfriend and said life and abandon a couple of hundred quids worth of metal.

Also if the rolls had been reversed and I’d been ISA and he’d been Narn I guarantee he almost certainly would not have won and that’s without allies. The reason for not taking allies is that all fleets have a built in weakness, by allowing the ISA allies they do not thus breaking a basic ethos of the game.

As for other peoples polls for the top five ships off hand what are the other four? Also these things to my mind fail to take in speed and manoeuvrability, the ability to get your guns where you want them and to avoid your enemies.

 

[Hindsight]

Meh. Whatever.

I'm putting out a lot of "well what if we" kind of comments, trying to make some change, as I'd rather not beat someone (god forbid I actually win) and they say the only reason I won was because the White Star is broken. Thats no fun for me, and thats no fun for you.

When the Vree guy beat the Vorlons today, it was said a few times that his outnumbering the Vorlon player some three or four to one was the reason why. "If you hadn't taken a Swarm fleet, you've had lost."

Wheres the fun in that? Are the Vorlons broken? Are the Vree?

That list we got from what has been sent to Matt, had nothing to do with protecting larger ships from that lucky crit that ends the game. That makes me sad. It really does. So much has been suggested, and if we whine about the price of something, Matt will step in, but I haven't seen much of him in these play test threads, and with one of the testers out of town, and the "Fab 5" down to a "Fab 3" thats even less attention this new stuff is getting............

At this point, some of these discussions are becoming silly in and of themselves. I'm not happy with how he presented his information, more about how "this guy beat me" and less about "here is what I see being the flaw". You see what I'm saying? Yea neither do I.

zzz

 

[H]

and the "fab 5" was actually a fab 8 or more at one point, but i think they all lost interest and weren't replaced

 

[Hindsight]

The reason for not taking allies is that all fleets have a built in weakness, by allowing the ISA allies they do not thus breaking a basic ethos of the game.

Thats not how you make a game. Thats just rock paper scissors. "I'd have won if there weren't that many Centauri in this tournament. Why can't you all play Narn, I kill Narn!"

The game should be balanced, so that any fleet, can take the same amount of points, and have a shot at victory. I know people who won't play the Vorlons. That is canon, but that is not balanced. I wouldn't let anyone play Shadows or Vorlons... they're just broken in the show... and balancing them in a game is a nightmare.

Someone at my store said today, that the main races are top tier, and all the league races will never be as strong as the main races. Why is that?! Why is balance across the board not the goal here?

Now I'm just rambling. I'm going away now =)

 

[Foxmeister]

and the "fab 5" was actually a fab 8 or more at one point, but i think they all lost interest and weren't replaced

I heard they were put to death? Something about being pelted to death from behind with MGP White Star Gunship models?

Regards,

Dave

 

[Hindsight]

Three in a sock is assault, four in a sock is assault with a deadly weapon.

Oddly enough striking someone with a White Star Carrier is not frowned on, as you're at least finding a use for it.

Yea I said it!

 

[eldiablito]

I, for one, personally am really into that reduced range for the White Stars. It fits what we see in the show and it makes much of the enemy secondaries a little more realistic.

If people are getting their bums roasted by 12 inch neutron beams, then perhaps they need to dedicate some of their ships to preform as rear guards? I know I frequently do that with both my Minbari and my Vree. If someone's secondaries are too short to deal with this version of the White Star, then that would make me seriously consider protecting my own "6".

On the other 2 threads... Those Narn would have died QUICKLY if it were not for the CBD 4+; that particular player was rolling straight 1s like that was all he had painted on his die (I was there for the previous game and I can tell you how bad they were). Instead, that additional 1/6 save made him survive enough to emine much of the WS fleet; no one should win when they roll that poorly and Hindsight was playing competently.

Now this is OT; the vorlon versus vree fight was to address a local meta game complaint where some people believe that the vorlons are too good. I simply wanted to see if I could do it. Now, I know it can be done but it was a tough fight (even after my super-lucky critical against the light cruiser, I only one by margin of 1 patrol selection of vorlon fighters and a vorlon transport). I plan to test this out again with the shadows one day (as a way to see if it was the super maneuverability or if it was simply a case of swarm fleets break the game...