Playtest rules - Narn updates
- Thread starter Foxmeister
- Start date
CZuschlag
Mongoose
The G'Vrahn was absolute miles better than any other War-priority selection out there. The only other one that was even in he conversation is the Mankhat because of the Advanced Anti-Ship missile barrage and the hope that you could kill the swarm in one huge volley. The G'Vrahn massively outclasses the others; even the Dra'Vash with its specific anti-swarm GEG system.
See the polling results from the forum for yourself! 48% of the board didn't vote "It's tough but not broken." I guess that means 48% thought that it was over the top before and needed fixing. It could have used a balance tune BEFORE the War-priority fix!
This ship has been on my Top-20 to rebalance consistently for months. it seems it was on other's radars as well. The only other one that occassionally appears (and then vanished again) was the Mankhat. Not even the spectacularly frustrating and annoying Sharlin made the list.
Sorry, dude, but this one had to come back to Earth.
See the polling results from the forum for yourself! 48% of the board didn't vote "It's tough but not broken." I guess that means 48% thought that it was over the top before and needed fixing. It could have used a balance tune BEFORE the War-priority fix!
This ship has been on my Top-20 to rebalance consistently for months. it seems it was on other's radars as well. The only other one that occassionally appears (and then vanished again) was the Mankhat. Not even the spectacularly frustrating and annoying Sharlin made the list.
Sorry, dude, but this one had to come back to Earth.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Da Boss said:Happy either way- however it could be extrapolated as - Bin'Tak is almost always flagship of any attack group it accompanies - Unless the dedicated command and control facilities of the G'Tal are available to the Admiral
Except that it doesn't say that.
IMHO, it would be more likely to say - Bin'Tak is almost always flagship of any attack group it accompanies - Unless the Ka'Bin'Tak has is part of the attack group
However, like you either way, I don't really mind - it was just a thought. It just fits the fluff better.
Regards,
Dave
Foxmeister
Mongoose
CZuschlag said:
Disagree that it *massively* outclasses all the other War ships. Was it the best? Probably - but then again, given the lack of granularity in the PL system there is always going to be a ship at the top and one at the bottom. Is it still the best? Quite possibly, but it's still pretty close to the Warlock.
Still more than half of all respondents said leave it alone - that speaks *volumes*. Presidents have been voted in with smaller majorities....
Also, out of that 48%, there's more than likely to be some "sour grape" votes from people who've regularly taken a hiding from a fleet containing a G'Vrahn.
Personally though, I don't mind the relatively minor nerf it's taken.
I'd like to see the Veshatan rebalanced because it is clearly broken.
Regards,
Dave
Greg Smith
Mongoose
My personal choice for being broken is the Ashinta.
For a Minbari ship it is extremely durable - as it can leaverage CBD due to arcs all the same - its a horrible ship to fight at low levels due to range and stealth - especially as a ISA ally. Played several cmapign games where the EA player had no chance whatsoever - told him at the start and we gave up after about 6 turns. Saw Minbari do same to similar ships..............
TL tends to mean 5 hits - a dink and a crit - every turn
Very nasty against EA at skirmish level games etc
not sure if it is broken - but its very very good ship
TL tends to mean 5 hits - a dink and a crit - every turn
Very nasty against EA at skirmish level games etc
not sure if it is broken - but its very very good ship
Greg Smith
Mongoose
It ain't really broken - it is just very very hard to kill. It has raid level damage, hull 5 and stealth 5. The TL minibeams mean it is consistently doing 5 hits a turn at far greater range than the EA can. It can also outmanuever those fleets with ease.
Against an EA or Narn fleet in a low or medium level fight, it is a monster.
Against ISA or Shadows, it is a bit of a lemon. Except for its superb escort capability.
It is something like a Nova with twice the speed, an extra turn, stealth, 50% more range, uninterceptable weaponry, the best escort in the game, and works at a significantly higher initiative bonus.
Against an EA or Narn fleet in a low or medium level fight, it is a monster.
Against ISA or Shadows, it is a bit of a lemon. Except for its superb escort capability.
It is something like a Nova with twice the speed, an extra turn, stealth, 50% more range, uninterceptable weaponry, the best escort in the game, and works at a significantly higher initiative bonus.
true, but also more susceptable to lucky crits knocking one of its vital traits offline.
and the average for it is 5 hits one turn, 4 the next really. 9 hits over a 2 turn period.
if the nova (or bimith) can get you into a broadside against a hull 5 target these 2 ships will do more average damage.
also a bimith/ashinta fight will go on forever if aux power to shields is auto. the ashinta cannot win
and the average for it is 5 hits one turn, 4 the next really. 9 hits over a 2 turn period.
if the nova (or bimith) can get you into a broadside against a hull 5 target these 2 ships will do more average damage.
also a bimith/ashinta fight will go on forever if aux power to shields is auto. the ashinta cannot win
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Hey, I get a sig quote!
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:Hey, I get a sig quote!
You are famous forever! Next you need to get a school named after you!
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I'm working on that...
Just had enough time to flip over the 1.0 rules.
Mhm, is a 4+ roll an CBD not a bit too good?
I dislike the entire CBD special order because its slowes down play considerably.
Has the G'vran not been downgraded a bit, too much? It's ok that he lost the Interceptors, but it lost damage in addition to this.
Mhm, is a 4+ roll an CBD not a bit too good?
I dislike the entire CBD special order because its slowes down play considerably.
Has the G'vran not been downgraded a bit, too much? It's ok that he lost the Interceptors, but it lost damage in addition to this.
Played a game Friday with 2 G'Quans. I like the changes, they are woth the choice now. Really like the 4+ on CBD.
with only losing 5 hit points of damage, it now makes the Bin'Tak a viable choice were before the G'Vrahn was the only choice.
I think the G'Quonth needs to be reduced a little, since the damage and crew have been upgraded, it looks to be a long range brawler more so then the Bin'Tak.
tschuma
with only losing 5 hit points of damage, it now makes the Bin'Tak a viable choice were before the G'Vrahn was the only choice.
I think the G'Quonth needs to be reduced a little, since the damage and crew have been upgraded, it looks to be a long range brawler more so then the Bin'Tak.
tschuma
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Tried out the Narn last night in a 5pt Raid against the Minbari.
I took:
1 G'Quan
1 Var'Nic
1 Dag'Kar
1 Sho'Kar
4 Sho'Kos (in 2 Squadrons)
My opponent took:
2 Shantavi
1 Leshath
Not the force I would've picked for a 5pt Raid, but there you go!
Given the two force compositions, I think it's a pretty safe bet which force was likely to win - I had 6 manoeuvre units vs his 3, and 3 ships with boresights. He had 5+ and 6+ stealth.
Turn 1, the Minbari won initiative, but with twice the number of manoeuvre units I was able to stay out of range of most of his ships whilst keeping my longer ranged beams on the G'Quan and Var'Nic on bore. In the ensuing shooting phase, the Minbari took down a single Sho'Kov (they were permanently on CBD), but the e-mines of the G'Quan and Dag'Kar allowed stealth to be broken on a Shantavi and a Leshath, and the G'Quan and Var'Nic took full advantage of this causing significant damage with their beamy goodness.
Turn 2, the Narn win initiative, and with the G'Quans e-mine gone it went straight onto CDB. The Minbari advanced into range and during the shooting phase, G'Quan failed to break stealth and subsequently took quite a beam hit (11 dice) from one of the Shantavis. CBD helped considerably, and whilst it was battered it wasn't out of the fray by any means. The Dag'Kar managed to break stealth on the damaged Shantavi, and with a lucky crit from it's Ion Torps managed to finish it off. The Var'Nic also laid some hurt down on the Leshath which has turned it's attention to the G'Quan but still couldn't batter down its defenses.
Turn 3, another Narn initiative win. The G'Quan and the remaining Shantavi both advanced on one another and since they were within 8", CBD wasn't used so as to get those 8" secondaries in. Unfortunately, it yet again failed to break stealth and took further damage from the Shantavi - it was now within 3pts of being crippled. Fortunately, the Dag'Kar and Var'Nic managed to take down the Leshath and the remaining Sho'Kovs managed to score a solid critical on the solitary Shantavi.
At that point, my opponent conceded, with 1.5 Battle points lost to just a single Sho'Kov though the G'Quan was in pretty bad shape.
It was difficult to draw many conclusions from this battle, as I think the Minbari fleet had too few ships to be truly competitive.
With CBD and the additional damage/crew, the G'Quan held up well but apart from a good solid beam shot on turn 1, didn't really do much more offensively since it failed to break stealth - a G'Lan would've at least had the opportunity to try to break stealth on two ships each turn after the first. I think if the G'Quan had perhaps 2 dice less on the e-mine, but a 2 dice Ion Torp (a la the Var'Nic) it would've been much harder to keep the ship on CBD. Otherwise it will likely CBD all the way until it gets within 8".
I feel the Sho'Kovs became a little too hardy when on CBD - they should either lose the Narn 4+, or be reduced a little in DPs to compensate as they really do only have a single worthwhile weapons system and thus gain significantly from CBD.
My concerns about the Dag'Kar and CDB never materialized in this game, but that is because it was never fired upon. Given that they are generally going to try to sit back and bombard from range, it may not be as much of an issue as I'd originally feared.
Regards,
Dave
I took:
1 G'Quan
1 Var'Nic
1 Dag'Kar
1 Sho'Kar
4 Sho'Kos (in 2 Squadrons)
My opponent took:
2 Shantavi
1 Leshath
Not the force I would've picked for a 5pt Raid, but there you go!
Given the two force compositions, I think it's a pretty safe bet which force was likely to win - I had 6 manoeuvre units vs his 3, and 3 ships with boresights. He had 5+ and 6+ stealth.
Turn 1, the Minbari won initiative, but with twice the number of manoeuvre units I was able to stay out of range of most of his ships whilst keeping my longer ranged beams on the G'Quan and Var'Nic on bore. In the ensuing shooting phase, the Minbari took down a single Sho'Kov (they were permanently on CBD), but the e-mines of the G'Quan and Dag'Kar allowed stealth to be broken on a Shantavi and a Leshath, and the G'Quan and Var'Nic took full advantage of this causing significant damage with their beamy goodness.
Turn 2, the Narn win initiative, and with the G'Quans e-mine gone it went straight onto CDB. The Minbari advanced into range and during the shooting phase, G'Quan failed to break stealth and subsequently took quite a beam hit (11 dice) from one of the Shantavis. CBD helped considerably, and whilst it was battered it wasn't out of the fray by any means. The Dag'Kar managed to break stealth on the damaged Shantavi, and with a lucky crit from it's Ion Torps managed to finish it off. The Var'Nic also laid some hurt down on the Leshath which has turned it's attention to the G'Quan but still couldn't batter down its defenses.
Turn 3, another Narn initiative win. The G'Quan and the remaining Shantavi both advanced on one another and since they were within 8", CBD wasn't used so as to get those 8" secondaries in. Unfortunately, it yet again failed to break stealth and took further damage from the Shantavi - it was now within 3pts of being crippled. Fortunately, the Dag'Kar and Var'Nic managed to take down the Leshath and the remaining Sho'Kovs managed to score a solid critical on the solitary Shantavi.
At that point, my opponent conceded, with 1.5 Battle points lost to just a single Sho'Kov though the G'Quan was in pretty bad shape.
It was difficult to draw many conclusions from this battle, as I think the Minbari fleet had too few ships to be truly competitive.
With CBD and the additional damage/crew, the G'Quan held up well but apart from a good solid beam shot on turn 1, didn't really do much more offensively since it failed to break stealth - a G'Lan would've at least had the opportunity to try to break stealth on two ships each turn after the first. I think if the G'Quan had perhaps 2 dice less on the e-mine, but a 2 dice Ion Torp (a la the Var'Nic) it would've been much harder to keep the ship on CBD. Otherwise it will likely CBD all the way until it gets within 8".
I feel the Sho'Kovs became a little too hardy when on CBD - they should either lose the Narn 4+, or be reduced a little in DPs to compensate as they really do only have a single worthwhile weapons system and thus gain significantly from CBD.
My concerns about the Dag'Kar and CDB never materialized in this game, but that is because it was never fired upon. Given that they are generally going to try to sit back and bombard from range, it may not be as much of an issue as I'd originally feared.
Regards,
Dave
