Playtest Rules - Abbai
- Thread starter Da Boss
- Start date
True, kotha issue, but one must post signs where they will be seen.
- sign alert - Bimith is nice, can we get the Aldrith as a variant... predecessor of the Lakara as the main battle cruiser... please... pretty please... we have fish women...
Back to the family friendly portion of our broadcast...
The fixed recharge sounds good, and everyone else says to everything... the Brivioki is supposed to be a beast. It's Arm. Pl for gods sake... it's got a god given right to be broken!
Juyaca - designed to fight the Drahk... with ISA tech being sloshed around... come on... she should dance on raindrops and drop anvils on you...
Ripple
- sign alert - Bimith is nice, can we get the Aldrith as a variant... predecessor of the Lakara as the main battle cruiser... please... pretty please... we have fish women...
Back to the family friendly portion of our broadcast...
The fixed recharge sounds good, and everyone else says to everything... the Brivioki is supposed to be a beast. It's Arm. Pl for gods sake... it's got a god given right to be broken!
Juyaca - designed to fight the Drahk... with ISA tech being sloshed around... come on... she should dance on raindrops and drop anvils on you...
Ripple
After lurking for quite sometime (mosting trying to find some London players) I thought I'd finally contribute! Well done for drawing me out fellas.
While I think that the mines are quite nice I don't really think that they are all that characteristic of the Abbai.
I don't really see them as a race that would leave a dumb explosive sitting in space that one of their own ships could set off, let alone one that could detonate with the laying ship nearby.
Why not see them as small automated area denial assets, portable versions of the planetary defence sats.
I think that the following gives us something that unambiguously works within the current rules (while the play-test rules in essence create a whole new class of unit within the game)
As an alternative to buying the mines with FAP they could potentially replace Kotha within ships at a certain ratio.
I think that giving the mines a specific value makes play testing them a little easier and that this approach gives Abbai players more options tactically.
Abbai Anti-Shipping Mine Field
Patrol (4 Fields)
Speed:-
Turns: SM
Hull: 5
Damage:-
Crew:-
Troop:-
Dog Fighting:-
Craft:-
Special Rules: Stealth 5+, Shield 1(1),
*The field makes a single move at the end of Abbai deployment.
Where the Abbai are defenders this move is 20.
Where the Abbai are attackers this move is 5.
Weapon: Particle Array
Range: 5
Arc: T
AD:2
Special: SAP, Twin-linked
Abbai Anti-Fighter Mine Field
Patrol (5 Fields)
Speed:-
Turns: SM
Hull: 5
Damage:-
Crew:-
Troop:-
Dog Fighting:-
Craft:-
Special Rules: Stealth 4+, Interceptors 2, Escort
*The field makes a single move at the end of Abbai deployment.
Where the Abbai are defenders this move is 20.
Where the Abbai are attackers this move is 5.
Weapon: Light Particle Array
Range: 3
Arc: T
AD:1
Special: Accurate, AP, Twin-linked
So What do you think gents?
T
P.S. Not an Abbai or League player.
While I think that the mines are quite nice I don't really think that they are all that characteristic of the Abbai.
I don't really see them as a race that would leave a dumb explosive sitting in space that one of their own ships could set off, let alone one that could detonate with the laying ship nearby.
Why not see them as small automated area denial assets, portable versions of the planetary defence sats.
I think that the following gives us something that unambiguously works within the current rules (while the play-test rules in essence create a whole new class of unit within the game)
As an alternative to buying the mines with FAP they could potentially replace Kotha within ships at a certain ratio.
I think that giving the mines a specific value makes play testing them a little easier and that this approach gives Abbai players more options tactically.
Abbai Anti-Shipping Mine Field
Patrol (4 Fields)
Speed:-
Turns: SM
Hull: 5
Damage:-
Crew:-
Troop:-
Dog Fighting:-
Craft:-
Special Rules: Stealth 5+, Shield 1(1),
*The field makes a single move at the end of Abbai deployment.
Where the Abbai are defenders this move is 20.
Where the Abbai are attackers this move is 5.
Weapon: Particle Array
Range: 5
Arc: T
AD:2
Special: SAP, Twin-linked
Abbai Anti-Fighter Mine Field
Patrol (5 Fields)
Speed:-
Turns: SM
Hull: 5
Damage:-
Crew:-
Troop:-
Dog Fighting:-
Craft:-
Special Rules: Stealth 4+, Interceptors 2, Escort
*The field makes a single move at the end of Abbai deployment.
Where the Abbai are defenders this move is 20.
Where the Abbai are attackers this move is 5.
Weapon: Light Particle Array
Range: 3
Arc: T
AD:1
Special: Accurate, AP, Twin-linked
So What do you think gents?
T
P.S. Not an Abbai or League player.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Tion said:
Plenty of players in London - look at the sticky thread "Better Player Locator".
There are several of us who regularly play from London Gamers which is based in Richmond.
The link to our forum is here:
http://z11.invisionfree.com/London_Gamers/index.php?act=idx
The forum doesn't see as much action as it probably should, but the club is well supported and ACTA is played quite regularly. In fact, we're going to be playing some games on monday to playtest the new stuff.
Regards,
Dave
I don't think mines was good answer to the abbai issues...
but...
I agree with the above poster... if you going to have them, they should be laid out as smart weapons. The abbai don't want to kill you if they can avoid it... they really don't want to kill innocent folks or themselves. So why resurrect one of the atrocities of the 20th century and bring back random dumb minefields for a race of lovers of life. These guys would be funding drives to remove such weapons not deploying them.
Ripple
but...
I agree with the above poster... if you going to have them, they should be laid out as smart weapons. The abbai don't want to kill you if they can avoid it... they really don't want to kill innocent folks or themselves. So why resurrect one of the atrocities of the 20th century and bring back random dumb minefields for a race of lovers of life. These guys would be funding drives to remove such weapons not deploying them.
Ripple
The mines are probably part of the legacy of AoG fluff. The Abbai were very defensive in nature and their colonies were set up behind large star bases and massive minefields - big enough to stop the Centauri and Dilgar.
I'm sure that Abbai mine fields are probably reasonably smart and incredibly well mapped, really the opposite of the indiscriminate and 'over there somewhere' attitude of 20th century minefields.
I'm sure that Abbai mine fields are probably reasonably smart and incredibly well mapped, really the opposite of the indiscriminate and 'over there somewhere' attitude of 20th century minefields.
Maybe... but I would rather see as the defense satalites than raw area explosives. Everyone was afraid to attack Earth due to the defensive batteries in orbit... I always pictured the Abbai defenses being like that.
Certainly not explosive ship craps... of course that could be me equating them too much with the romulan nsms of SFB.
Ripple
Certainly not explosive ship craps... of course that could be me equating them too much with the romulan nsms of SFB.
Ripple
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Ripple said:
The problem with mines isn't that they're indiscrimate explosives, it's that they get left behind after the war is over. I can't see the Abbai being careless enough to leave a minefield lying about after they've finished punishing some viscious aggressor. They'd be meticulous in cleaning up battlefields.
I disagree... even during the war, which takes place around civilians... many non-combatants die in the fields. The stats I saw years ago for ongoing conflict zones were just horrible.
Something more obvious like the automated weapons along the berlin wall maybe... where the area of denial was clearly marked.
Ripple
Something more obvious like the automated weapons along the berlin wall maybe... where the area of denial was clearly marked.
Ripple
I like the idea of the mines, but giving the mines different AD depending on the PL that laid the mine seems like an accounting nightmare waiting to happen. We playtested this and pretty much every ship in my fleet laid a mine every single turn. That's a LOT of mine markers on the table to keep track of.
I'd rather see a set mine stat or have the AD dependent on the size of the ship being hit by the mine, not the ship that laid it.
I'd rather see a set mine stat or have the AD dependent on the size of the ship being hit by the mine, not the ship that laid it.
Maybe have a minelayer ship but that seems more Gaim to me. They were the ones with the super mines in B5 show. I'd like to see that rather all the e-mines the gaim have. Mines aren't really Abbai, think the idea of Defense Sats would be better & thats not a SA or an ability.
Maybe make their weapons behave like DD on crew damage on crits. Abbai weapons tend to disable the crew of the ship rather than wreck the ship might be good piece of fluff to establish the rule.
Maybe make their weapons behave like DD on crew damage on crits. Abbai weapons tend to disable the crew of the ship rather than wreck the ship might be good piece of fluff to establish the rule.
I actually thought Alpha Strike was the right one for the abbai...
Theory here is the abbai want to minimize loss of life if they can while still utterly destroying your ability to wage war. Not that the girls are squeamish... piss em off and they go build a Juyaca to kick your ass, but with there single damage weapons they would shoot for guns and engines type stuff... so a squadron would have the concentrated fire to not do three -1 speed crits... but one -1 speed crit and adrift your tail.
As the damage multiplier is low, you would not see hugely increase loss of life... and maybe you remove his power/weapons/engines before he can put some innocent in danger.
Still like my idea that other abbai ships within range can support the fire of a ship by loaning AD on the Quads like escort does. Say a bimith loans half its AD to a Milani but loses the other half. Ships have to be range 4 or six to each other...
Fluff? - normally quads are ineffective beyond range eight as they disperse too widely to damage ships... but even long range assistances that is targeted to 'fill the pattern' can greatly add to the ships effective fire.
Maybe two ships firing broadsides together could up the range to 12 instead of enhancing the AD numbers....
Just suggestions other than littering the table with mines... not only un-fluffy in a number of ways... but a pain to play with. Let's not recreate the Gaims hundred counter fleet to track.
Ripple
Theory here is the abbai want to minimize loss of life if they can while still utterly destroying your ability to wage war. Not that the girls are squeamish... piss em off and they go build a Juyaca to kick your ass, but with there single damage weapons they would shoot for guns and engines type stuff... so a squadron would have the concentrated fire to not do three -1 speed crits... but one -1 speed crit and adrift your tail.
As the damage multiplier is low, you would not see hugely increase loss of life... and maybe you remove his power/weapons/engines before he can put some innocent in danger.
Still like my idea that other abbai ships within range can support the fire of a ship by loaning AD on the Quads like escort does. Say a bimith loans half its AD to a Milani but loses the other half. Ships have to be range 4 or six to each other...
Fluff? - normally quads are ineffective beyond range eight as they disperse too widely to damage ships... but even long range assistances that is targeted to 'fill the pattern' can greatly add to the ships effective fire.
Maybe two ships firing broadsides together could up the range to 12 instead of enhancing the AD numbers....
Just suggestions other than littering the table with mines... not only un-fluffy in a number of ways... but a pain to play with. Let's not recreate the Gaims hundred counter fleet to track.
Ripple
I really like the idea of giving Alpha Strike to the Abbai. It would be especially fitting given the Abbai's use of single-damage Precise beams.
On a side note, you could have the mines function like disposable defense sats. Instead of making the mine DD and e-mine, make it single-damage and precise. The idea would be that the mine is actually a bomb-pumped x-ray cannon, kind of like they were toying with in the 80's (and also featured in at least one Weber/White novel as a ship-mounted weapon system). Basically, the mine is a nuke, but the explosion is focused in a specific direction. From a fluff perspective, that would definitely be much more Abbai-like, and would leave open the option for giving the Gaim "big boom" mines later on.
On a side note, you could have the mines function like disposable defense sats. Instead of making the mine DD and e-mine, make it single-damage and precise. The idea would be that the mine is actually a bomb-pumped x-ray cannon, kind of like they were toying with in the 80's (and also featured in at least one Weber/White novel as a ship-mounted weapon system). Basically, the mine is a nuke, but the explosion is focused in a specific direction. From a fluff perspective, that would definitely be much more Abbai-like, and would leave open the option for giving the Gaim "big boom" mines later on.
B5freak said:
Unless you were going to make them much more powerful I don't think they would deter ships much.
See my post on page 2 for my idea of implementing persistent defence sats. I think that persistence gives you an area denial without making the individual weapons hideously powerful. Plus, buying them seperately gives them an assigned value, rather than altering the value of existing ships by adding them.
Troy
To honest Chris I don't think anyone should have MoD either... but the game hands out giant stomper candy to everyone...
Anyway, my point wasn't essentially that they should get Alpha Strike, but it was more in character than leaving huge minefields all over the table. Alpha essentially tries to disable a ship with minimum damage, not just make space an unsafe place to be.
Alpha with damage multiplier weapons or weapons that need ships to go adrift is a problem however, and certain crits are an issue... specifically to no fire/no arc ones and the no DC one.
Ripple
Anyway, my point wasn't essentially that they should get Alpha Strike, but it was more in character than leaving huge minefields all over the table. Alpha essentially tries to disable a ship with minimum damage, not just make space an unsafe place to be.
Alpha with damage multiplier weapons or weapons that need ships to go adrift is a problem however, and certain crits are an issue... specifically to no fire/no arc ones and the no DC one.
Ripple
