Pixar's latest production

[emperorpenguin]

Or the Russians :wink:

Yes very true, but to be honest... in that part it was more help from the italians then the russians

the italians? :?

 

[captainsmirk]

We didn't loose it to Joan of Arc, we burnt her at the stake in 1431, the Hundred years war, which was really three wars over a period of 116 years ended 22 years later in 1453. And the English quite convincingly won the first two...

She of course contributed to our eventual defeat but wasn't the one who ultimately brought it about. More the fact that the war had been going on for such a long time, and the French adopting our own tactics rolled up the developing internal difficulties occuring in England at the time.


Nick

 

[Greg Smith]

Flarn-eating surrender monkeys?

Sorry but a brit who laughs about the french is the funniest thing in the world.
Was it not a french girl who kicked you out of france?
.

I didn't intend offence and I was joking about the Minbari. In truth I was paraphrasing that infamous line and I apologise for my unintended insult.

Personally, I've never been kicked out of France, by a girl or otherwise.

To be fair to Greg he was just making a joke based on the infamous line (was it Rumsfeld/Cheney/someone else?) in a minbari context, quite funny really! :lol:

Exactly, it was a pretty insulting line and my intent was to use it in a humorous fashion, thereby showing how silly it was.

 

[emperorpenguin]

We didn't loose it to Joan of Arc, we burnt her at the stake in 1431, the Hundred years war, which was really three wars over a period of 116 years ended 22 years later in 1453. And the English quite convincingly one the first two...

True, but as Al Murray said qualifiers......

She of course contributed to our eventual defeat but wasn't the one who ultimately brought it about. More the fact that the war had been going on for such a long time, and the French adopting our own tactics rolled up the developing internal difficulties occuring in England at the time.

Very true again but I think she was a catalyst and focal point, without her the French may have lost.

 

[captainsmirk]

It's a bit like the the Franco-German 75 Years War. The Germans won the first one, lost the second one, then the French effectively lost the third (but came back in the final round...)

Anyone guess what the hell I'm talking about?

Oh and to get this train wreck back on topic, very amusing Burger... :lol:


Nick

 

[emperorpenguin]

It's a bit like the the Franco-German 75 Years War. The Germans won the first one, lost the second one, then the French effectively lost the third (but came back in the final round...)

Anyone guess what the hell I'm talking about?
Nick

Yep

Franco-Prussian war 1870-71
World War One
World War two

Do i win a prize?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

To be fair to Greg he was just making a joke based on the infamous line (was it Rumsfeld/Cheney/someone else?) in a minbari context, quite funny really! :lol:
But yes that was my point to LDTD that we (Brits) can't boast about Crecy/Agincourt because we lost that war! ....to a girl!

Well, actually, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for witchcraft before the end of the war, and it was the incompetence of Henry VI, not Joan of Arc's competence, that lost the war for England.

My point about Crécy and Agincourt was that in those battles the French performance was shockingly bad. You might be a Napoleonic buff and have me at a disadvantage there, but I'm a medieval buff, and trust me when I say every decision the French commander made in those battles was a turkey. Anyone that sends heavily armoured crossbowmen into boggy ground to exchange shots with archers in elevated, prepared defensive positions, then orders his own heavy cavalry to ride the crossbowmen down, then attempts to assault the aforementioned elevated, prepared defensive positon, charging across the boggy ground before it, with heavy cavalry, deserves the slurs levelled at him. That was only Crécy. Agincourt was similarly absurd. The French didn't need to press for battle at all, but they did, and they did in a position that favoured the English, after giving them time to prepare a defence.

France may have an undeserved reputation for cowardice and incompetence in battle, but these two events are hard to ignore...

 

[captainsmirk]

Correct!

Have a peanut...


Nick

 

[emperorpenguin]

Well, actually, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for witchcraft before the end of the war, and it was the incompetence of Henry VI, not Joan of Arc's competence, that lost the war for England.


France may have an undeserved reputation for cowardice and incompetence in battle, but these two events are hard to ignore...

Well leaving aside the debate about how much of a role Jean D'Arc played...

Yes the French plan in both battles was flawed, however as already said so was the terrible suicidal British assault on New Orleans in 1815. American dead was about a dozen to 2000 British casualties. The British needed ladders to scale the American defences........ they forgot them!
At isandhlwana soldiers were sent into Zulu territory without adequate scouts and there was ammunition shortages because they lacked the correct implement for opening the ammo boxes.
At arnhem the paras were sent in lacking equipment to take on panzers because the intelligence guys ignored the evidence of panzers at arnhem in the build up!

So Britain is guilty of plenty of military blunders too

 

[emperorpenguin]

Correct!

Have a peanut...


Nick

Dry Roasted? I love dry roasted

 

[wargame_insomniac]

Flarn-eating surrender monkeys?

One of the funniest original quotes I have seen in a long time!!
:lol: :lol:
Thank you

Cheers

James

 

[Lord David the Denied]

So Britain is guilty of plenty of military blunders too

Of course. I never said otherwise. On the other hand, the UK has one of the best military traditions in the world, and we've rarely lost a war in our history. We've lost battles, like the ones you named, and many others, but most of the time we won the wars those battles were part of. Not always, but most of them.

 

[Da Boss]

and of course lots of other excellent military Commanders - Nelson, Wolfe, Duke of Marlborough, .......................and so on.

Plus the less than excellent ones - who seemed to play a large role in the War of Independance/ Revolution

 

[Lord David the Denied]

and of course lots of other excellent military Commanders - Nelson, Wolfe, Duke of Marlborough, .......................and so on.

Plus the less than excellent ones - who seemed to play a large role in the War of Independance/ Revolution

That whole debacle was basically - as I understand it - down to one thing: the government didn't care if the American colonies were lost. We fought a token war to keep them while we were busy elsewhere. Of course, if the French hadn't supplied arms and advisors to the rebels it might have turned out differently, but that's a story for another day...

 

[H]

How on earth did a Pixar/Drakh picture post turn into a debate on who has the worst military record?

at the end of the day, Every country has had a good kicking at one stage or another. True, Overall Frances record isn't great, but then look at how many times ancient Briton got conquered by one invader or another, heck, we are more french and german than the french and Germans!

WWII was essentially won by the Russians, I'll probably get flamed for this, but if so many resources hadn't been sent to the Eastern front, D-Day could have been an utter abject failure. (ok, speculation, but the Russians really did mess the germans over big time!)

 

[Reaverman]

How on earth did a Pixar/Drakh picture post turn into a debate on who has the worst military record?

at the end of the day, Every country has had a good kicking at one stage or another. True, Overall Frances record isn't great, but then look at how many times ancient Briton got conquered by one invader or another, heck, we are more french and german than the french and Germans!

WWII was essentially won by the Russians, I'll probably get flamed for this, but if so many resources hadn't been sent to the Eastern front, D-Day could have been an utter abject failure. (ok, speculation, but the Russians really did mess the germans over big time!)

I do hope you are happy with yourself Hiff, cos you have just opened one big can of worms

 

[H]

Which bit, pointing out that we are all french and german (Norman and Saxon for those not up on history. . . not to mention the Italians amongst us (roman decent), or the Nordic posse (from the vikings)
or saying Russia won us WWII?

 

[emperorpenguin]

Plus the less than excellent ones - who seemed to play a large role in the War of Independance/ Revolution

That whole debacle was basically - as I understand it - down to one thing: the government didn't care if the American colonies were lost. We fought a token war to keep them while we were busy elsewhere. Of course, if the French hadn't supplied arms and advisors to the rebels it might have turned out differently, but that's a story for another day...

I wouldn't say the government didn't care! The colonies were worth a lot in financial terms to Britain. The problem was a) the distance and subsequent logistical problems b) incompetent leadership c) the entry on the rebels side of France, Spain and Holland

In fact Britain could have won the war had Washington not escaped over the Delaware or had Saratoga not been botched. Even without the French Britain simply hadn't the ability (and increasingly the political will to last the fight)

 

[H]

Plus the less than excellent ones - who seemed to play a large role in the War of Independance/ Revolution

That whole debacle was basically - as I understand it - down to one thing: the government didn't care if the American colonies were lost. We fought a token war to keep them while we were busy elsewhere. Of course, if the French hadn't supplied arms and advisors to the rebels it might have turned out differently, but that's a story for another day...

I wouldn't say the government didn't care! The colonies were worth a lot in financial terms to Britain. The problem was a) the distance and subsequent logistical problems b) incompetent leadership c) the entry on the rebels side of France, Spain and Holland

In fact Britain could have won the war had Washington not escaped over the Delaware or had Saratoga not been botched. Even without the French Britain simply hadn't the ability (and increasingly the political will to last the fight)

I'm really not up on the US war of independance, I was always of the understanding that the British fleet got smacked in the face by scurvy, severly redusing the troop numbers, any truth in that at all?

 

[emperorpenguin]

How on earth did a Pixar/Drakh picture post turn into a debate on who has the worst military record?

:lol: something about French victories and google!

at the end of the day, Every country has had a good kicking at one stage or another. True, Overall Frances record isn't great, but then look at how many times ancient Briton got conquered by one invader or another, heck, we are more french and german than the french and Germans!

Well we're not more French/German than those nations, but we are a mixture of them, Celts and Scandinavians.

WWII was essentially won by the Russians, I'll probably get flamed for this, but if so many resources hadn't been sent to the Eastern front, D-Day could have been an utter abject failure. (ok, speculation, but the Russians really did mess the germans over big time!)

You might get flamed but I'm in complete agreement with you! The Germans were losing on the eastern front well before D-Day, eventually the Soviets would have beaten Germany alone if necessary.