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emperorpenguin said:
old chestnut indeed, very funny but also very wrong! The French have a long list of victories

...until they came up against the British... :wink:

It's unfair to label the French as military failures, but they've had some spectacular defeats to go with some great victories. Their losses at Crécy and Agincourt were nothing short of shocking in the military incompetence displayed, but Napoleon (among others) led the French to victory after victory. Napoleon's record is tainted by the fact he came up against the only general better than he was - Wellington - and received the drubbing of a lifetime because of it.

Wandering a bit off-topic here...
 
Lord David the Denied said:
emperorpenguin said:
old chestnut indeed, very funny but also very wrong! The French have a long list of victories

...until they came up against the British... :wink:

It's unfair to label the French as military failures, but they've had some spectacular defeats to go with some great victories. Their losses at Crécy and Agincourt were nothing short of shocking in the military incompetence displayed, but Napoleon (among others) led the French to victory after victory. Napoleon's record is tainted by the fact he came up against the only general better than he was - Wellington - and received the drubbing of a lifetime because of it.

Wandering a bit off-topic here...

'tis off topic but....

Crecy and Agincourt were no more shockingly incompetent than Isandhlwana or New Orleans :wink:

I don't think many people would share your view that Wellington was better than Napoleon. Don't forget that the latter was very ill with early signs of stomach cancer and had the Prussians not arrived (or even according to Napoleon as recounted in exile, had Ney not wasted the cavalry) then most historians feel Napoleon would have won.
 
I was in Paris watching the All Blacks play & afterwards in a bar they decided to change price of the beer & suddenly couldn't understand english till i reminded them of when did they last win a war which was the Revolution but one side did lose so it couldn't count as a win. They understood english then but didn't seemed to find it as funny as i did.
 
Target said:
I was in Paris watching the All Blacks play & afterwards in a bar they decided to change price of the beer & suddenly couldn't understand english till i reminded them of when did they last win a war which was the Revolution but one side did lose so it couldn't count as a win. They understood english then but didn't seemed to find it as funny as i did.

so they lost WW1 did they? :?: and the Gulf War? and the Crimea?
 
emperorpenguin said:
Target said:
I was in Paris watching the All Blacks play & afterwards in a bar they decided to change price of the beer & suddenly couldn't understand english till i reminded them of when did they last win a war which was the Revolution but one side did lose so it couldn't count as a win. They understood english then but didn't seemed to find it as funny as i did.

so they lost WW1 did they? :?: and the Gulf War? and the Crimea?
I knew it wouldn't be right but they didn't either hence it worked but the beer went back to the right price. Bad enough they tried to fool us with Non Alcoholic beer at the game.
There are too many wars to keep track of, there probably lots of little wars in their colonies they won.
The moral of the story is never trust parisians bar keeps, the rest of france is ok.
 
Burger said:
If they had a Troligan, maybe they'd have done a bit better ;)
trolfrbp0.jpg
 
I might have to invest in some minbari and paint them in the national colours of France. Somehow it seems terribly appropriate.



Dave
 
Davesaint said:
I might have to invest in some minbari and paint them in the national colours of France. Somehow it seems terribly appropriate.
Dave

You insult me sir. (smacks davesaint with a white glove - SMACK!)

I demand satisfaction.
 
emperorpenguin said:
'tis off topic but....

Crecy and Agincourt were no more shockingly incompetent than Isandhlwana or New Orleans :wink:

I don't think many people would share your view that Wellington was better than Napoleon. Don't forget that the latter was very ill with early signs of stomach cancer and had the Prussians not arrived (or even according to Napoleon as recounted in exile, had Ney not wasted the cavalry) then most historians feel Napoleon would have won.

Isandhlwana was an ambush, conducted by native troops with intimate knowledge of the terrain, against a column in marching order, in terrain well-suited to ambushing. That said, the British column should have had proper scouts in place and should have detected the ambush...

I can't comment on New Orleans, as I'm completely ignorant of the details of the battle. I gather it was a battle in the War of 1812, and a British defeat, but aside from that I don't know what happened.

For both of the defeats you mentioned, though, we have a victory to make up for them. Isandhlwana is balanced up by Rorke's Drift, and New Orleans by the burning of Washington DC...

As for Napoleon vs Wellington, Napoleon used the same column tactic against every opponent, and Waterloo, his greatest performance, was a defeat. Wellington never lost a battle in his career and won against odds that would have made other generals quake. Assaye was the most spectacular of these, were a small British composed almost entirely of local troops defeated the vast Mahratta Confederation army, complete with elephants. Wellington's defence of Portugal and the Battle of Talevera (someone tell me if I spelled that right) were also remarkable.

Incidentally, according to my readings, Waterloo was about sewn up by the time the Prussians turned up, and the French Imperial Guard had already been sent in to attack the British line before they arrived. This always signalled the last gasp for a French battle, since the Imperial Guard were held in reserve until they were most needed, in the manner of the Roman Triarii.
 
Lord David the Denied said:
Isandhlwana was an ambush, conducted by native troops with intimate knowledge of the terrain, against a column in marching order, in terrain well-suited to ambushing. That said, the British column should have had proper scouts in place and should have detected the ambush...

You said it! A b***s up by the brass led to a disaster. Ambush or not is beside the point, Britain has suffered disasters too.

For both of the defeats you mentioned, though, we have a victory to make up for them. Isandhlwana is balanced up by Rorke's Drift, and New Orleans by the burning of Washington DC...

Ok but the burning of Washington was before New Orleans and the French won the 100 years war, we lost! :wink: I think that victory makes up for those battles they did lose.

As for Napoleon vs Wellington, Napoleon used the same column tactic against every opponent, and Waterloo, his greatest performance, was a defeat.

Firstly that is an immense oversimplification of the French method of war back then (I am a HUGE Napoleonic war buff :wink: ) and at Waterloo plenty of French infantry advanced and fought in line. Neither will any military historian call Waterloo Napoleon's "greatest performace" as you do. Austerlitz is often credited as his best or perhaps Marengo.

Wellington never lost a battle in his career

Discounting the failed attempt to take Burgos?

the Battle of Talevera (someone tell me if I spelled that right)

Talavera, nearly right :wink:

Incidentally, according to my readings, Waterloo was about sewn up by the time the Prussians turned up, and the French Imperial Guard had already been sent in to attack the British line before they arrived. This always signalled the last gasp for a French battle, since the Imperial Guard were held in reserve until they were most needed, in the manner of the Roman Triarii.

Well I'm afraid your reading is wrong. The Prussians had shown up hours before the Guard were committed (4.30 with the Guard attack beginning 7.30). The Young Guard had spent the afternoon fighting them off in Plancenoit. Napoleon sent in the Old Guard hoping that the extremely brittle Anglo-Allied line would break, which of course it didn't, so that he could then turn on the Prussians fully.
Had the Prussians not shown up Napoleon could have committed even more forces versus the wavering Anglo-Allied army. Remember Wellington called it "A damned near run thing".
The Old Guard were almost never committed to battle, much to their chagrin, earning them the nickname "Les Grognards" or "The Grumblers"
 
Grimbart_Kriegsaxt said:
Greg Smith said:
Flarn-eating surrender monkeys?

Sorry but a brit who laughs about the french is the funniest thing in the world.
Was it not a french girl who kicked you out of france?
.

To be fair to Greg he was just making a joke based on the infamous line (was it Rumsfeld/Cheney/someone else?) in a minbari context, quite funny really! :lol:
But yes that was my point to LDTD that we (Brits) can't boast about Crecy/Agincourt because we lost that war! ....to a girl! :lol: As Al Murray said "the qualifiers don't matter, it's the finals that count!" :lol:

Oh and just think a minute, about how long you would have stood against the Wehrmacht without help from the USA
.

Or the Russians :wink:
 
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