PBG Generation Rules

[EDG]

So it appears that Book 3 needs the multiplier to be consistent with one of its statements.

It's not the only instance of CT being inconsistent within the same book. Book 6 gives you two different descriptions of how to place Gas Giants!

 

[atpollard]

Barren Planets: For a planet to be completely uninhabited (i.e. not one single sentient living there and to qualify for the Barren Trade Classification) the planet's Population code must be 0 and the Population mulitplier must also be 0.

Perhaps I am being dense, but how can a world with absolutely no people on it have ANY TRADE?

"... The ship lands on a rock outcropping where the crew uses an automated broker (placed there for just such a purpose) to sell a load of textiles. Happy at the profits dispensed by the machine, they feed the credits back into the machine before collecting some radioactive ore that happens to be waiting in a nearby valley ..." HUH??

I think that (Ba)rren means no life EXCEPT for the people.

 

[captainjack23]

Barren Planets: For a planet to be completely uninhabited (i.e. not one single sentient living there and to qualify for the Barren Trade Classification) the planet's Population code must be 0 and the Population mulitplier must also be 0.

Perhaps I am being dense, but how can a world with absolutely no people on it have ANY TRADE?

"... The ship lands on a rock outcropping where the crew uses an automated broker (placed there for just such a purpose) to sell a load of textiles. Happy at the profits dispensed by the machine, they feed the credits back into the machine before collecting some radioactive ore that happens to be waiting in a nearby valley ..." HUH??

I think that (Ba)rren means no life EXCEPT for the people.

Well, yeah, but the criterea is 0 pop. I think its just to mark the useless (for trade)worlds. Although...it also marks the worlds with no one to complain about resource exploitation,....

Not to say that a code for humans on a lifeless world code isn't a bad idea - but perhaps it would be subsumed in De, Na, Po; since, mainly we don't have (and it would be cool if we did) a code (or stat roll like SIZ) for "native biosphere if any". First in had a good one, but you needed stellar data.

 

[SableWyvern]

In TNE, Barren worlds were definitely void of population; I believe the trade code was justified on the basis that in some circumstances it may still be a source of goods in the form of raw materials or such.

 

[EDG]

I think captjack's right - Ba is just there to mark which worlds have no people, not as any kind of meaningful statement about trade (other than "there's nobody here so don't bother").

 

[SableWyvern]

Not saying you're wrong EDG, and I can't talk to earlier uses of the Ba code, but in TNE it is defined thusly:

Goods from Barren Worlds are raw materials mined or gathered by a ship crew. They are poor sources of cargos and resources, and cannot be markets.

 

[EDG]

True... obviously there's nothing stopping anyone from going to a Ba world and doing whatever they like (unless it's a Red Zone), but the underlying point is that nobody lives there and there aren't any markets .

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

I think captjack's right - Ba is just there to mark which worlds have no people, not as any kind of meaningful statement about trade (other than "there's nobody here so don't bother").

That has always been my take on the Ba TC (which I agree is a misnomer in this case - it's more of a "Remark").

There aint nobody dere but dem chickens, aint nobody dere at all....quite literally.

FWIW, Marc included a new TC for T5 related to Ba in a spreadsheet he sent me - "Dieback": Pop=0, Gov=0, LL=0, Pop multiplier=0 *BUT* the TL is 1+ i.e. the technology is there, on the planet, possibly working (or possibly not) but non-one is home. There's jus dem chickens there (again).

And whilst I'm thinking (I know, I know, a highly unusual thing for me to do!) - on the subject of the PBG:

GAR: I think MGT should include the PBG element of the UWP string in the core rules

..........(hence my wittering on about it here ).

Eyethangewe.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Not saying you're wrong EDG, and I can't talk to earlier uses of the Ba code, but in TNE it is defined thusly:

Goods from Barren Worlds are raw materials mined or gathered by a ship crew. They are poor sources of cargos and resources, and cannot be markets.

(my italics) - my whole big-thing-point exactly, cos no-one is home; no-one lives there; no sentient life (however barbaric/undeveloped) exists on the planet; it is a world Barren/devoid of habitation.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

How about a d66 method to roll the population multiplier:

    1  2  3  4  5  6

1   1  1  2  2  3  3
2   1  1  2  2  3  3
3   4  4  5  5  6  6
4   4  4  5  5  6  6
5   7  7  8  8  9  9
6   7  7  8  8  9  9

 

[captainjack23]

How about a d66 method to roll the population multiplier:

    1  2  3  4  5  6

1   1  1  2  2  3  3
2   1  1  2  2  3  3
3   4  4  5  5  6  6
4   4  4  5  5  6  6
5   7  7  8  8  9  9
6   7  7  8  8  9  9

Nice. A flat distribution from 2d6 for 1-9 , since we can ignore a Planet code of 0 in all cases except Pop zero, really.

Only real issue is that it's more a lookup table rather than not. Not a big issue as anyone generating PBG is going for details, anyway.

 

[atpollard]

How about a d66 method to roll the population multiplier:

I suggest a slight modification to the table so it does not matter which die is which ...

    1  2  3  4  5  6

1   1  1  2  3  4  5
2   1  1  2  3  4  5
3   2  2  6  6  7  7
4   3  3  6  6  8  8
5   4  4  7  8  9  9
6   5  5  7  8  9  9

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Actually, once you use it, it isn't too bad.

You remember that the first die gives you the "multiplier" and the second die gives you the "spread"

1 or 2 on the first die means you are going to be in the range of 1-3
3 or 4 means a range of 4-6
5 or 6 means a range of 7-9

There is on 0 because unless the POP number is actually 0 (0-9 people) a multiplier of 0 makes NO SENSE.

If you want a POP=0 world to be uninhabited, then do it.

Personally, I LIKE the idea of a few unihabited worlds around. Nothing of interest or value, moving on.

Even worlds with breathable atmospheres might be uninhabited after thousands of years of settlement...

Imagine a world where all of the life has amino acids coiled clockwise instead of counter-clockwise. EVERYTHING living on that planet is totally inedible to most life in the universe (which is CCW spun). While the air is good, the planet might as well be lifeless, worse in fact since the native life will be competing against your imported food crops and have the entire ecosystem working with it (such as bacteria, bugs etc).

While not common, it could be used occasionally. OR, it could explain all those perfectly habitable looking worlds with very low populations...

 

[captainjack23]

Actually, once you use it, it isn't too bad.

You remember that the first die gives you the "multiplier" and the second die gives you the "spread"

1 or 2 on the first die means you are going to be in the range of 1-3
3 or 4 means a range of 4-6
5 or 6 means a range of 7-9

There is on 0 because unless the POP number is actually 0 (0-9 people) a multiplier of 0 makes NO SENSE.

If you want a POP=0 world to be uninhabited, then do it.

Personally, I LIKE the idea of a few unihabited worlds around. Nothing of interest or value, moving on.

Even worlds with breathable atmospheres might be uninhabited after thousands of years of settlement...

Imagine a world where all of the life has amino acids coiled clockwise instead of counter-clockwise. EVERYTHING living on that planet is totally inedible to most life in the universe (which is CCW spun). While the air is good, the planet might as well be lifeless, worse in fact since the native life will be competing against your imported food crops and have the entire ecosystem working with it (such as bacteria, bugs etc).

While not common, it could be used occasionally. OR, it could explain all those perfectly habitable looking worlds with very low populations...

Well....for one thing none of the Beer or Chocolate wouldn't make you fatter !
(dead of anaphlactic shock != fat)

Plus, I'm on board with the 0 pop = no one, no pop multiplier needed. Except for that castaway, of course, with his crude air tent and fusion still.....and a heck of a story about pirates...(or more likely, why you should keep up with your maintainance even if it is your own effing scout that you run yourself, dammit)

 

[EDG]

I think we're getting a bit into insane territory when we're coming up with 2D tables to generate numbers from 1 - 9.

Just roll a darn 1d10-1 and reroll a 0, already! There's no real reason why it shouldn't be anything but an equal probability for all the 1-9 values.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Just roll a darn 1d10-1 and reroll a 0, already!

Uhm MGT is based on CT which is a *purely d6 mechanic*. There isn't any reference to or need for d10s in MGT. It's all d6s.

Hence my original suggestion of 2D-2 for generating the population multiplier, as I was a) trying not to over-complicate the d6 mechanics and b) trying desperately not to end up having to use a look-up table. Just chuck the dice and read the result, sort of thinking.

 

[SableWyvern]

Just roll a darn 1d10-1 and reroll a 0, already!

Uhm MGT is based on CT which is a *purely d6 mechanic*. There isn't any reference to or need for d10s in MGT. It's all d6s.

Hence my original suggestion of 2D-2 for generating the population multiplier, as I was a) trying not to over-complicate the d6 mechanics and b) trying desperately not to end up having to use a look-up table. Just chuck the dice and read the result, sort of thinking.

Yup. D10s would be bizarrely out of place used just in this instance. Somebody new to roleplaying won't have the faintest idea what the rules are on about if they're suddenly brought up in this context and nowhere else. And is it worth wasting a paragraph or two explaining them just for this incredibly minor detail?

2d6-2 is perfectly serviceable.

 

[EDG]

OK, so use a 2d-2 (reroll the 12) then, and accept that most worlds will have a pop mult of 5 (though chances are they're going to buy MGT in a gaming store which will stock any other dice anyway. I think most prospective gamers are going to realise that there are other dice types around).

Either way, my point is that we really don't need to go so far as concocting lookup tables for this sort of thing.

 

[EDG]

Actually, why not just do 2d-2 for the pop multiplier, and if you get a result of 0 or 10 (i.e. a roll of 2 or 12) then replace that with a result of 5 (the average roll). That'd just mean you get 22.3% of worlds having a pop mult of 5 instead of 16.7%, which is a bit of an increase but no big deal really. And saves re-rolling til you get an acceptable number...

So to borrow Aramis' asterisk plot, it'd look like this:

2d-2 plot (0 and 10 converted to 5)
0
1 **
2 ***
3 ****
4 *****
5 ********
6 *****
7 ****
8 ***
9 **
A

 

[AKAramis]

I prefer ((1d3-1)*3)+1d3.