[OTU] "The Imperium rules *space*"... um, how?

[GamerDude]

EDG, great question. If I may, after reading what's been posted, present the "beginner's guide to the Third Imperium" that I give as an explanation to new players.

For the most part, The Imperium doesn't get involved with how a planet rules itself.* Actuall control, support, starport mgmt and such are handled through the sector and subsector gov'ts.

At the current point in time, planets apply to join the Imperium** (ala Star Trek's Federation). Even minor conflict between planets might not receive Imperial action.

The Imperium is responsible for defense of the Imperial space/planets from outside entities.

as one player put it "the Imperium is concerned with anything that interferes with commerce and/or the ability to collect taxes."

*Pavabid is a planet in the CT adventure "Divine Intervention". Pavabid is a theocracy that keeps it's population at TL6 in order to control them, and forbids contact between locals and individuals at the Imperial starport without express permission.

**This also comes from the CT adventure "Divine Intervention", Collace (the planet the adventure starts on) has applied for membership in the Imperium.

 

[rust]

The Imperium rules Space by being super awesome, of course!

My setting's species would consider the Imperium super awful, I think. :wink:

 

[newtraveller]

Spinward Marches my good man.

Quite possibly the best 'fluff book' I own, and one that explains the Imperium's roles clearly to a noob like me.

 

[atpollard]

So you have to pay taxes that you'll see no benefit from to a VERY distant ruler that doesn't give a rats arse about your random little rockball, is why . Why should a society have to do things the Imperium's way and on the Imperium's terms? What the heck is that going to DO to a society that's just reaching out into space? Can you imagine what would happen if we got out of the Solar System to discover that not only all the nearby systems were already colonised by someone else, but that they also want to shut down our exploration and deny us any rights to things on our own terms? There's nothing that pisses people off more than being denied things that they feel they have a right to have...

You have convinced me ... DISBAND THE UNITED NATIONS!!! DEATH TO THE EU!!! Libertarians unite!

Effective immediately, I declare my block (all 11 houses) to be a free and soverign nation. We will be having a bake sale to raise money for a space program to support our manifest destiny across the stars.

[Which is all just my way of saying that the Imperial Membership costs you a share of your taxes but brings you into the Imperial Trade Network - granting an immediate Local TL+2 Starport and access to a flood of trade (import and export). Revolt and the starport closes and virtually all ships stop coming ... Sorry Earth, no more engineered transplant organs and meta-antiviral drugs - back to TL 7/8.]

 

[StephenT]

Can you imagine what would happen if we got out of the Solar System to discover that not only all the nearby systems were already colonised by someone else, but that they also want to shut down our exploration and deny us any rights to things on our own terms? There's nothing that pisses people off more than being denied things that they feel they have a right to have...

Sounds familiar, somehow. I wonder where I've heard that before?

(It's the premise of the 'Traveller:Interstellar Wars' campaign setting, for people unfamiliar with the history of the OTU... Basically, this is how the First Imperium was replaced by the Second.)

Seriously, painted like this, the Imperium's actually a really nasty empire. But then, a secretive rebellion/underground would make for an interesting adventure opportunity...

If it were a 'really nasty empire' then it would be blowing up planets and enslaving entire species and shipping rebels off to death camps. Or using psionics to reprogram its citizens into happy smiling drones who love their government. All the Third Imperium is guilty of is wanting to become more powerful, and preventing challenges to its rule - which is hardly unusual for human governments.

In other words, the 3I is morally grey, not black or white. It has nasty little secrets, but it also ensures peace and prosperity. It's not a democracy, because it's an Empire: a pretty standard trope of Golden Age science fiction (see Asimov's Foundation trilogy, for example). An Empire needs an Emperor to rule it; simple as.

 

[EDG]

Good answers all, thanks!

Though I wonder - the strength of the Imperium seems based on the idea that its members (un)willingly contribute to it. But since there doesn't appear to be anything that is solely "an Imperial citizen" (as opposed to a citizen of a planet that happens to be a member of the Imperium too) if those members pull out their citizens from the Navy then the Imperium would be in trouble.

It's like the UN's peacekeepers. If the UN member states pulled out their citizens from the Peacekeeping force, then there wouldn't be a Peacekeeping force anymore (or it'd be severely weakened).

It seems a somewhat rickety structure to build on if people's allegiance is largely to their own planet/society first and the Imperium second. The Solomani at least have the Solomani Party/Cause to unite them, but the Imperium doesn't have much of an ideology itself to give its members the idea of being part of something bigger than the individual parts.

 

[StephenT]

But since there doesn't appear to be anything that is solely "an Imperial citizen" (as opposed to a citizen of a planet that happens to be a member of the Imperium too) if those members pull out their citizens from the Navy then the Imperium would be in trouble.

Well, sure. If one world pulls out, that only leaves 10,999 which are still members...

Not to mention that I'm fairly sure allowing your citizens to participate in interstellar trade and join the Imperial services is one of the few hard and fast rules in the Imperial constitution - it's what the Imperium was created for, after all.

the Imperium doesn't have much of an ideology itself to give its members the idea of being part of something bigger than the individual parts.

It's a bit like the United States under the Articles of Confederation, in fact. (And going back a step: the Imperium allows member worlds to have their own navies the same way the US allows Texas to have a National Guard.)

 

[zozotroll]

And besides, you need a fair portion of the planet to agree to the rebellion. Like most things human, many planet members are going to oppose rebelion on the local level.

Look at the USA right now. A few people have expessed an amount of disstisfaction with the current persident, and even more are unhappy with Congress. Both have the lowest approval ratings ever). Yet rebelion doesnt seem to be in the air.

What, is Texas going to rebel and join Mexico? Or try to go it alone?Most likely either would cause more problems than is solved. So even though people are pissed off, they stay in the system.

 

[GamerDude]

Also, if you look at the CT adventure "Signal GK", the planet the adventure starts on has actually been under Imperial Military Rule since the end of the last war between the Imperium and the Solomani Confederation.

So life isn't all good and swell for planets in the Imperium.

 

[Majestic7]

http://freelancetraveller.com/features/culture/reference/power.html

I believe this is a good article, done as in-game text no less, about how political power within the Imperium works.

 

[Shiloh]

Can you imagine what would happen if we got out of the Solar System to discover that not only all the nearby systems were already colonised by someone else, but that they also want to shut down our exploration and deny us any rights to things on our own terms? There's nothing that pisses people off more than being denied things that they feel they have a right to have...


...the Imperium crushes all rebellion and dissent and free will in its territory, lovely!

Seriously, painted like this, the Imperium's actually a really nasty empire. But then, a secretive rebellion/underground would make for an interesting adventure opportunity...

Painted by your own hand, EDG. The Imperium doesn't crush all rebellion, dissent and free will.

If we suddenly discovered that we were surrounded by the 3I, we'd be a candidate for membership, and joining would give the world (to varying degrees, depending how close to the trough you could get) a lot of benefits. This might *cause* some political and ideological changes, but those wouldn't be enforced by the Imperium. If we started trying to throw our weight around between the stars, they'd slap our wrists, possibly quite hard but otherwise we'd be left pretty much alone, apart from taxes.

Rendering unto "caesar" gets us:

* an Imperial Starport, giving access to space.
* access to things like the XBoat network
* access to Imperial assistance (potentially)
* NOT Red-zoned.

I wonder how many Red Zones are actually planets that are in default of their taxes and therefore under trade interdict. And how many of those just don't care?

 

[Majestic7]

I think it is pretty interesting how some Traveller fans see the Imperium and the megacorporations as violent, oppressive forces of a corrupt elite abusing those too weak to fend for themselves why to others they are somewhat forces of "good" and fairness, usually as opposed to the Zhodani and other folks. This is one of the best parts about Traveller, I think - the material is clear enough to give us the workings of the Imperium but vague enough that it is up to each individual how they see the big picture. So different people can play very different kind of games with the same basic premises. Most RPG settings can't provide that!

 

[tneva82]

Actually pretty simple:

CT, GT (and from what I've read T4) present the 3I as a positive force where the nobility (and to a lesser extend the MegaCorps) say "With great power comes great responsibility"

MT and TNE present the 3I as a negative force where nobility and MegaCorps say "with great power comes great immunity"

And truth is probably in the middle ;-)

 

[Baron Sidur Haski]

Trade is the glue that keeps the Imperium together. Macro-Economics.
It allows for cultures of varying tech levels and social levels to coexist side by side in the same star cluster. It allows for each world to retain its ways, but still be connected and protected as any other part of the Imperium or its Client States.

This "protection" is not the old terran Gangster-style protection, but real protection. Protection from many things. Pirates. Raiders. Interstellar War. Runaway Nobles. Runaway Megacorps. Plagues. Disasters.

It is important to picture the map as being a board with the Star Systems represented as lights. When all is well, a System's light is bright. Trade flows, and the people are content, or at least not killing each other or starving to death.

When all is not well, the system's light flickers. Trade is disrupted. There is social unrest. The people are in trouble. The Imperium must investigate, and if unable to mediate and solve the problem locally, take action to solve the problem. It's bad news if the light goes out. During the Long Night, for example, many lights were out.

In the case of good or bad nobles, the points given are valid, but I think the structure of the Moot is overlooked. A stray Knight or Baron can range from annoyance to real problem for those in his or her charge, but it gets to be a REAL problem when you go higher up the scale.

A rebel Duke for example, say even a Subsector Duke, one who fortifies his Subsector secretly, leads the people in his stewardship down a fatalisitc path to fuel his own ambition. Billions could be killed as other Dukes rise up duty-bound to squash the uprising. Such an occurance denotes a failure of the Moot to do its job properly, which is to filter out the Napoleons and Stalins and Hitlers from the other Loyal Stewards.

If I, as a Baron, decided tomorrow, to begin to treat the staff at my Holdings as Serfs, or began to be outwardly cruel or apathetic to thier work conditions or welfare, productivity would drop from the Holdings, and I could expect a warning from my superiors to change my ways, or else.

If I didnt turn it around immediately (as I would be being watched closely)
I would lose the holding, being deemed unfit to handle the responsibility. The word would spread in Social Circles (even with a week delay, this travels fast) and I would find that my reputation has taken a hit. IT may be harder to get things done. I may lose contacts, business connections, freindships, you name it. I've seen some nobles have political marriage dissolved for less.

IF after all this, I could not turn it around and make a "comeback". Two Imperial Couriers would appear on my doorstep, and would symbolically shred my Patent and Deed to my House (also a Holding) and I would be told to vacate for the new Baron post haste. I would also have no further concern for social circles and reputation any longer.

It is like that with all Nobles, except the Emperor, but even he must listen to the Archdukes if he wants a functioning Imperium.

 

[Majestic7]

When talking about protection provided by membership, I think it should be noted that the Imperium is in no way or form a force interested in fighting against social injustice. There are several dictatorships and other oppressive governments that have a membership. Slavery and genocide and that kind of stuff are forbidden by Imperial laws, but violent oppression of political opposition, racism/specism and working conditions close to slavery seem to be okay. Imperium protects the trade and the systems, but it doesn't protect the people from their own governments (which may even be megacorporations) unless they cross a certain line. On the other hand, it usually does not protect those governments from an uprising either. This can be disputed based on some CT/GT material if you really want to believe in a "Sunshine Imperium", but it feels rather implausible.

In MT era, one of the reasons for Dulinor's Rebellion was this non-interference policy of the Third Imperium. Based on MT materials, I think he believed that the Imperium should take more active interest in their member worlds and force the local governments to play more according to certain rules. Ine Givar movement was based on the same concerns, although they ended up becoming puppets of the Consulate. So even though Dulinor and Ine Givar only caused more harm than good, the motivation and support for their causes indicated that all don't agree with the way Imperials handle the regional and local affairs.

 

[rust]

When talking about protection provided by membership, I think it should be noted that the Imperium is in no way or form a force interested in fighting against social injustice.

Yep, for many Imperial citizens living under a dictatorship with an extreme
law level the Imperium doubtless is the sinister power behind their local
oppressors.

 

[Baron Sidur Haski]

I for one agree with you two on your concerns 100%. I think it is wrong for the Imperium to turn a blind eye to the plight of systems. This is rooted in tradition that goes back centuries and is slow to change. I can see no valid argument to link the words "productivity" and "slavery" together. Most of the hazards I described are Space related. Plagues and Disasters may have been wishful thinking on my part.

But that change cannot be made at gunpoint. That has been tried before.
Would Dulinor have done better by getting his message to other parts of the Imperium by X-boat rather than an assassination? I think so. "I'm gonna blow this guy's head off for your own good, guys!" sounds a little wierd when you mull it over.

Sure, a Government may live under a brutal dictatorship, but what if its a dictatorship that they wanted? Ratified? Agreed on? What then? Should the Imperium be expected then to reform governments when the population deems that they don't work for them?

One solution to that is to not interfere, and let the planets work it out.
Let social change work it out. People tend to get sick of brutal dictatorships and overthrow them. They might even find backing from interested parties.

The "solution" to Interfere, and not only that, to blame the Imperium and rebel against it, solves the dicatorship problem for sure. There is no population left after Rebel Forces square off with High tech fleets and Troops. So Dulinor may have had a dream of a more helpful Imperium under his stewardship, but this would be only after Billions died to pay for it.

 

[Majestic7]

Actually Dulinor tried for the Iridium chair based on the old "right of Assasination" that had been cited a few times before (i.e Cleon the Mad) allowing high nobles to kill an Emperor considered a danger to the 3I. He just lost his nerves (as he did later again) and instead of keeping on Sylea he ran home allowing Lucan to claim the chair.

Sure, but I was not talking about his methods but his motivations. The plan was altogether a horrible failure - and I really can't fathom any reason to fall for the Right of Assassination instead of trying to change things politically as a powerful Archduke - but it was that change for the uncaring Imperial governance that motivated him.

Depends. Contrary to popular assumptions dictatorships don't have to be uniformly bad for the people. And that is even more true in Traveller.

Heh, sure, the best form in government, in theory, is a benevolent dictatorship by a supremely intelligent and well meaning lord. Unfortunately corruption and all that tends to take its course, not to mention that psychopaths have a natural tendency to drift in leadership positions in authoritarian power structures.

The Imperial "Rules of Warfare" prevents a planet from going to war against another world so one of the common problems leading to suffering in a dictatorship is gone.

Hmmmm... I've always thought that the Imperial Rules of Warfare only dictate what weapons can be used and so forth, instead of explicitly forbidding member worlds from fighting it out? Besides, many worlds are balkanized with several political entities so no need to go interstellar for a war to happen. I can be wrong though. I can't be bothered to go through ALL my Traveller books to check it out.

GURPS Star Mercs was the first book that happened in my hand with text on the subject. In it, pages 20-24, it is only said that the rules are quite unofficial in nature. However, they are, in short "the War Shall Be Just" (aggressors need a casus belli), "the War Shall Not Interrupt Free Trade", "the Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction against Civilian Targets is Forbidden", "the War Shall Not Cause Unnecessary Suffering to Non-Combatants", ""the War Shall Be Conducted with Respect to Sophont's Rights", "Imperial Observers Shall Be Granted Unlimited Access to the Conflict", "Any Violation of the Rules of War Shall Be Deemed Sufficient Cause for Intervention".

If you happen to know other sources for the Rules of War that say other things, I'd be interested in reading that stuff?

There are plenty of very unpleasant dictatorships and theocracies detailed in official Traveller sources. It doesn't, of course, mean that there couldn't be something less bad among them. Anyway, "social injustice" doesn't need to mean political oppression. It can simply mean an economic system where majority of people are extremely poor to the point of starvation and mercilessly exploited in a pyramid shaped society. That structure can be directly or indirectly result of Imperial trade structure through its megacorporate influences and thus cause resentment among the people who are smart enough to understand it.

 

[Commander Drax]

In my Imperium and from I can gleam from canonical materials, the Empire is generally well thought off by those worlds that were integrated almost 1000 years ago (if using a later Imperium Milieu), whilst individual worlds and pockets of dissent exist due to clashes of political ideology. Those worlds that have a free press/media will likewise have a varied range of opinions expressed regarding the validity and nature of the empire or the wisdom of the local sector Duke's decisions and lifestyle.

The rebellions and pacifications happened centuries ago and whilst some worlds might resent the Imperium the same way that some people in the USA's south resent the North (thanks to the civil war), not much really comes of this. After all in modern day Britain no cares about the conflicts between the Celts and the Saxons, or resent the Viking pillaging and slave taking or the Norman conquest despite a lot of people being descended from these diverse groups. These event's happened as far back in time as 1000 to 1600 years ago. To bring things up to date again no one cares about the the many wars between France and Britain some two to three hundred years back, that really only ended in the 19th Century.

Time moves on, people integrate over time, the memories of conflict become history. This history is written by the victors and the ruling government would most likely claim it's legitimacy as a descendant of a certain faction that sided with the Empire. The present day citizens would naturally feel that this included them too.

This is one of the reasons why I like the Milieu Zero era so much, an aggressively expanding Imperium being petitioned for membership by those worlds that either want it's benefits or can see the writing on the wall, that is quite happy to forcefully absorb those that want nothing to do with Cleon and his corporate friends, makes the stage for epic conflict and diversity of ideology/political opinions and almost never ending rebellions and anti-imperial actions. Players can be on either side of the conflict and make ethical choices that they can believe in and respect. As opposed to the criminal "lets knock off an Imperial Bank Vault and get rich because there's no other way we can adventure", rational that poor referees often come up with for later Milieu sessions.

No other RPG universe has ever given you so much.

 

[captainjack23]

<snipping excellent points>

This is one of the reasons why I like the Milieu Zero era so much, an aggressively expanding Imperium being petitioned for membership by those worlds that either want it's benefits or can see the writing on the wall, that is quite happy to forcefully absorb those that want nothing to do with Cleon and his corporate friends, makes the stage for epic conflict and diversity of ideology/political opinions and almost never ending rebellions and anti-imperial actions. Players can be on either side of the conflict and make ethical choices that they can believe in and respect. As opposed to the criminal "lets knock off an Imperial Bank Vault and get rich because there's no other way we can adventure", rational that poor referees often come up with for later Milieu sessions.

No other RPG universe has ever given you so much.

I heartily agree. The dynamic of the empire is one of those behind the curtain things that makes it such a rich world to play in. It isn't clear who the good guys and the bad guys are, on either side -and a gm can pitch it ether way, and have it work out equally well. I know the lack of definition really bugs some people, or invites projections that bug other people, but once again, the philosophy that "excess detail ties down the GM" seems to work. The OTU is a game framework, not a work of fiction with a hardwired and defined structure, ethos and progress.

Really, in a novel, potential inconsistencies and things that seem to be internally inconsistent are a BIG failing; in an RPG setting, much less so. Granted, this is a matter of degree....some settings are just plain broken -I think the beauty of traveller is that it has managed to hew very closely to that line, far more than most, to give a poential rich setting that both works mostly out of the box, but can also be configured to the GM's delight.

Whoops. Raging Fanboy moment. I'm back now.