OT: Where does a Computer end and a Robot Begin?

[rust]

I doubt that there will ever be tight exclusive definitions ...

Indeed, especially since in the real world the tendency is to avoid the term
"robot" because of its connection with a humanoid shape and to use des-
criptions like "autonomous" (e.g. AUV = Autonomous Underwater Vehicle,
a "deep sea robot") or "unmanned" (e.g. UAV = Unmanned Aerial Vehicle,
a "flying robot" or in miltary terminology a "drone") instead.

 

[captainjack23]

Actually, the word robota means specifically an indentured worker (not a slave... they didn't exist during the Middle Ages, although they had earlier). The best approximation is the compulsory days a feudal peasant worked for his lord on his fields.

See ? Like it or not, we are forced to learn somthing new every day

Thanks for that. It does explain the uncertainty in other translations I've found. so....halfway between a worker and a slave is an indentured worker...

 

[captainjack23]

I doubt that there will ever be tight exclusive definitions ...

Indeed, especially since in the real world the tendency is to avoid the term
"robot" because of its connection with a humanoid shape and to use des-
criptions like "autonomous" (e.g. AUV = Autonomous Underwater Vehicle,
a "deep sea robot") or "unmanned" (e.g. UAV = Unmanned Aerial Vehicle,
a "flying robot" or in miltary terminology a "drone") instead.

Robot also suffers in today's world, because it isn't a TLA. 8)

 

[saundby]

A computer is an information processing device. Its I/O is built to handle information, even when that includes information from physical transducers (potentiometers, pressure transducers, hall effect devices, etc.)

A computer acts as the control element of a robot. A robot uses a computer to control physical effectors of whatever sort. Valve solenoids, linear actuators, even items like lasers when they are used as effectors (e.g. to cut metal) rather than as transducers (DVD reader.)

Usually the range of effect of the effector needs to be outside the peripheral information devices of the computer system itself to qualify for being robotic. E.g. a controlled motor on a set of wheels that move the system is robotic, the motor that moves a print head or paper advance in a printer is not. However, when a technology is new for an information peripheral, the novelty often makes it seem robotic.

A modern CNC mill is a robot, as is a modern guided missile. It's also worth noting that the robot's control computer doesn't have to be digital. It can be an analog computer. Though an analog computer usually has to have a reasonably high level of sophistication before the system it controls is considered robotic. A simple linear sense and feedback control loop wouldn't make the grade.

Among modern missiles with digital controls, in many systems where multiple missiles will be used simultaneously, the missiles are capable of independent intercommunication during flight to distribute themselves among available targets, assess relative target values and likelihood of successful attack, using this information to divvy up the task appropriately. I could go on, but let's just say I think our tech is more like what the Zhos have than not.

Assembly robots are also not usually simple automatons any more. They have the ability to do assessments and make decisions about their tasks. The fact that they sit still (well, some of them) while the work moves by makes it easy to tie them into a larger system that might be considered one big robot of which the assembly arms, trucks, etc. are parts.

If something's just run by remote control, it's not a robot. So the armed and armored RC cars on TV aren't robots.

-Mark G. (instrumentation & controls engineer, in case you hadn't guessed. )

 

[rinku]

As long as the computer (or femputer) isn't being secretly run by a robot (or fembot).

 

[kafka]

What an excellent thread...hopefully the best answer makes it into the Robot book...

Computers, IMTU, are big clunky adding machines capable of responding only direct human commands they are the HVAC or the electronic wiring that underlies the High Tech society. Programs are rigid and are loaded upon wafers. Hackers would need electronics as well as mechanical. This is the Vilani legacy.

Whereas, Robots operate on the basis of programming i.e. software and are mobile and use sensors to interact with the environment with minimal human direction. Certain things may be hardwired into the programming (I know echoes of Asimov) but by-in-large Robots are autonomous and with TL progression getting closer to self-awareness.

Computers may become self-aware faster, if they are fitted with robotic brains but this not usual practice. But, as TL increases more miniaturization takes place, so it might be possible to fit a computer inside a robot but really not practical.

e.g. even if you could carry a power planet in your pocket...it still would the HVAC infrastructure to make a building hot/cold hence the need for a central furnace remains...but this not to say you would not need "power packs" to run all your modern electronic devices incl. weapons.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Whereas, Robots operate on the basis of programming i.e. software and are mobile and use sensors to interact with the environment with minimal human direction.

But would you classify a smart missile a robot?

 

[rust]

A smart missile is a vehicle with an autopilot. I would hesitate to call a
one use autopilot with extremely limited options to interact with its envi-
ronment and no ability to learn a robot.

 

[BP]

Ah - wonderful opportunities...

Missile 1: "Missile One! Locked, Gimballed and Ready to Rock!"

Missile 2: "Missile Two - Let me at 'em! Just Let me at 'em!"

Missile 3: "Yeah.. uhm.. listen, missile three here, and, uhm.. my last mechanical indicated a possible fault in my, er, redundant, secondary inertial guidance systems. And.. my port thruster is feeling a little, um, clogged at the moment. I'm sure its nothing. Really, I'll be fine. But, I might should sit this one out. Won't want to.. ah.. pre-detonate or nothing. Ok, guys?"

 

[AndrewW]

What an excellent thread...hopefully the best answer makes it into the Robot book...

Well, the content for Book 9: Robot is already done...

 

[AndrewW]

Ah - wonderful opportunities...

Missile 1: "Missile One! Locked, Gimballed and Ready to Rock!"

Missile 2: "Missile Two - Let me at 'em! Just Let me at 'em!"

Missile 3: "Yeah.. uhm.. listen, missile three here, and, uhm.. my last mechanical indicated a possible fault in my, er, redundant, secondary inertial guidance systems. And.. my port thruster is feeling a little, um, clogged at the moment. I'm sure its nothing. Really, I'll be fine. But, I might should sit this one out. Won't want to.. ah.. pre-detonate or nothing. Ok, guys?"

Missile 4: "This is missile four, you guys shut up and can the chatter we've got work to do!"

 

[kafka]

Whereas, Robots operate on the basis of programming i.e. software and are mobile and use sensors to interact with the environment with minimal human direction.

But would you classify a smart missile a robot?

The missile in itself would not be a robot. But, if it was fired from a robotic ship ie a warbot then it gets really blurry. Essentially, robots are capable of fuzzy logic whereas computers are not.

What an excellent thread...hopefully the best answer makes it into the Robot book...

Well, the content for Book 9: Robot is already done...

No chance for last minute editorial touch ups? Based upon these discussions. Then one can hope that the author will carefully read them and incorporate what (s)he wrote and these observations into a S&P article.

 

[lastbesthope]

Computers can do fuzzy logic if you program them that way.

LBH

 

[kafka]

Computers can do fuzzy logic if you program them that way.

LBH

You are correct from a 21st century point of view...but remember, how I said computers are part of the architecture much as a furnace is part of the HVAC system. In the Far Far Future (that was Traveller's byline once upon a time), Computers are quite dumb (although do really amazing things) whereas robots can be quite smart.

Now, each Interstellar Polity decides the limits that it places upon robots hence a "computer" with robotic brain architecture would not be a computer by the standard definition.

Which comes back to why a warbot is a warbot not a computer.

 

[AndrewW]

No chance for last minute editorial touch ups? Based upon these discussions. Then one can hope that the author will carefully read them and incorporate what (s)he wrote and these observations into a S&P article.

Can't answer that but there is a definition in there (not just a one liner).

 

[rinku]

Computers can do fuzzy logic if you program them that way.

LBH

You are correct from a 21st century point of view...but remember, how I said computers are part of the architecture much as a furnace is part of the HVAC system. In the Far Far Future (that was Traveller's byline once upon a time), Computers are quite dumb (although do really amazing things) whereas robots can be quite smart.

Now, each Interstellar Polity decides the limits that it places upon robots hence a "computer" with robotic brain architecture would not be a computer by the standard definition.

Which comes back to why a warbot is a warbot not a computer.

And conversely, a "robot" without a robot brain that's operating to a simple program isn't a real robot, just an automaton.

 

[locarno24]

Missile 1: "Missile One! Locked, Gimballed and Ready to Rock!"

Missile 2: "Missile Two - Let me at 'em! Just Let me at 'em!"

Missile 3: "Yeah.. uhm.. listen, missile three here, and, uhm.. my last mechanical indicated a possible fault in my, er, redundant, secondary inertial guidance systems. And.. my port thruster is feeling a little, um, clogged at the moment. I'm sure its nothing. Really, I'll be fine. But, I might should sit this one out. Won't want to.. ah.. pre-detonate or nothing. Ok, guys?"

Missile 4: "This is missile four, will you guys shut up and can the chatter? We've got work to do!"

Missile 2: "That's easy for you to say, you only ever get loaded into the last one in the salvo. Some of us have to deal with point defence - missile one hasn't managed to reach a target in the last eight battles!"

Missile 1: "Guys, I asked you not to keep talking about that!"

For some reason I find myself thinking of Ian Banks' The Culture novels....

 

[rinku]

I just feel for poor old Missile 24, back there in deep storage. Always the bridesmaid...

 

[BP]

Oh, Missile 4 is quite content - it is contemplating the meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything.

(P.S. on a prior ship loadout, Missile 4 had been even further back in the queue - it was Missile 42 )

 

[kafka]

Computers can do fuzzy logic if you program them that way.

LBH

You are correct from a 21st century point of view...but remember, how I said computers are part of the architecture much as a furnace is part of the HVAC system. In the Far Far Future (that was Traveller's byline once upon a time), Computers are quite dumb (although do really amazing things) whereas robots can be quite smart.

Now, each Interstellar Polity decides the limits that it places upon robots hence a "computer" with robotic brain architecture would not be a computer by the standard definition.

Which comes back to why a warbot is a warbot not a computer.

And conversely, a "robot" without a robot brain that's operating to a simple program isn't a real robot, just an automaton.

Or as CT establishes a dumbot...but I prefer automaton.