OT: Where does a Computer end and a Robot Begin?

[Jon Brazer Enterprises]

So I was writing up a d66 list (Uses for Robots). Some of them I had to ask myself: isn't that just a computer? For example: a smart missile. Is that just a computer navigation system in a missile or is that a specialized robot with an explosive device? No one would argue that a Roomba isn't a robot, but it is however arguable that a smart missile is just a roomba set for a specific target with an explosive tip.

So, what do you think? Where is the line?

 

[rust]

So, what do you think? Where is the line?

The usual definition is that it is a robot if it is able to move on its own
without remote control.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

A robot probably needs some sort of internal logic capacity (OK, this could be very simple software to make decisions), an ability to comprehend its environment (even crudely in narrow ranges), and the ability to interact (maybe very, very simply... i.e. movement).

I would say that a computer can't do all of those things (although it might be capable of one or two if specialised).

Autonomous smart missiles "could" possibly be classed as robots, but low-grade at best. It might depend on how they functioned.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Good question.

I would say no a smart missile is not a robot.

A computer is added to and controls the function of something that works anyway. Computer guidance and targeting improves a missile but it still works without the brain (not well but still useable)

A robot to me is a self contained unit, capable of movement and function under computer control but useless without. The computer controled car assembling units are called robots and even though not mobile are technicaly robots inthat they are capable of a number of tasks and are useless without the computer.

A missile is a missile, a smart missile is more accurate but its still just a missile.

A high tech fighter with many computers may be capable of targeting enemy aircraft itself, selecting the highest priority targets and asking for permision to fire but its still computers not a robot

A high tech drone that patrols, select targets and fires on them itself or moves to areas where it detects more activity than its current area is a robot.

There are a lot of border line cases and some that fall on both sides of the line. I suspect you will need to draw a line and put items one side or the other in some cases.

 

[Jame Rowe]

So, what do you think? Where is the line?

The usual definition is that it is a robot if it is able to move on its own
without remote control.

Aww, you stole my answer! :x :wink:

Which was, of course, that a robot is a computer that can get up and walk around. :wink:

 

[Dave Chase]

OK, so what was the missle (bomb) in Dark Star the first movie made by George Lucas?

I say that any object with the ability to move, make decisions and react to it's enviroment (even in a limited form) is a robot.

Dave Chase

 

[rust]

I say that any object with the ability to move, make decisions and react to it's enviroment (even in a limited form) is a robot.

In my setting I distinguish between automatons, drones and robots as ty-
pes of mobile systems.

Automatons only repeat the same activity over and over again, without
any ability to make desicions which would allow them react to their envi-
ronment in any other way. What is called an "industrial robot" today is in
fact a dumb automaton.

Drones are normally remotely controlled, although most of them have a
software that is sophisticated enough to allow them some very basic deci-
sions, for example not to crash into a mountainside, not to "harvest" hu-
man children instead of food animals, and so on.

Robots are almost completely autonomous. They still need a human to
tell them what to do, but their software is so sophisticated that they can
decide themselves how to do it and can react to situations that were not
explicitly programmed into their software.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

OED Online:

1. a. Chiefly Science Fiction. An intelligent artificial being typically made of metal and resembling in some way a human or other animal.
b. fig. A person who acts mechanically or without emotion.

2. A machine capable of automatically carrying out a complex series of movements, esp. one which is programmable.

3. An automatic traffic light. Also more fully traffic robot. Now S. Afr.

4. A flying bomb, esp. one used by German forces during the Second World War (1939-45); a doodlebug. Cf. robot bomb n. at Compounds 2. Now hist.

5. Computing. More fully software robot. A program for automatically performing a task (esp. on the Internet) without continuous human intervention; spec. one used by an Internet search engine for indexing the contents and relationships of web pages (cf. SPIDER n. Additions).

Take your pick!

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[rust]

3. An automatic traffic light. Also more fully traffic robot. Now S. Afr.

I would prefer this one, it would be a good explanation for the Third Impe-
rium's Shudusham Concords - armed traffic lights are a really inhumane
idea. Imagine the traffic light suddenly telling you to stop, you brake just
a split second too late, and the armed traffic light kills you with a particle
beam - you would definitely be not amused. Must have been a most mise-
rable life on those member worlds of the Imperium where armed traffic
lights were used before the Shudusham Condords were signed.

 

[AndrewW]

Drones are normally remotely controlled, although most of them have a
software that is sophisticated enough to allow them some very basic deci-
sions, for example not to crash into a mountainside, not to "harvest" hu-
man children instead of food animals, and so on.

But harvesting human adults is ok?

 

[AndrewW]

3. An automatic traffic light. Also more fully traffic robot. Now S. Afr.

I would prefer this one, it would be a good explanation for the Third Impe-
rium's Shudusham Concords - armed traffic lights are a really inhumane
idea. Imagine the traffic light suddenly telling you to stop, you brake just
a split second too late, and the armed traffic light kills you with a particle
beam - you would definitely be not amused. Must have been a most mise-
rable life on those member worlds of the Imperium where armed traffic
lights were used before the Shudusham Condords were signed.

Maybe they only shoot to disable or use something non-lethal. Firing a net, stunner, sticky goo, etc.

Or maybe they have discovered transporter technology and just transport you directly to a jail cell then particle beam your vehicle.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Drones are normally remotely controlled, although most of them have a
software that is sophisticated enough to allow them some very basic deci-
sions, for example not to crash into a mountainside, not to "harvest" hu-
man children instead of food animals, and so on.

But harvesting human adults is ok?

No, they are only after the heads.

 

[Blix]

IMO a Robot is a non-sentient machine built to perform a task, a Computer is a processing unit that can be sentient or not.

If a robot or a computer are sentient, they're Artificial Intelligences (so there is no such thing as an AI 'robot' - it would probably be more accurately referred to as an "android" or "artificial lifeform").

I guess you could call refer to a 'smart' missile as a robot of some kind. It'd depends on how smart it is - a modern 'smart missile' isn't sentient, it'd more accurately be called a "drone". A sentient missile would be an AI, like the thermostellar bombs in Dark Star, or AKVs in Transhuman Space (which are essentially sentient UAV drones in control of their own weaponry).

YMMV etc.

 

[dreamingbadger]

OK, so what was the missle (bomb) in Dark Star the first movie made by George Lucas?

it was very funny


in all seriousness I think trying to narrow the term to one specific function is pretty hard; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot.

Given that some of the machines that build cars are "robots" ... I would say it does not have to be capable of locomtion, but it does have to be capable of movement.

 

[Blix]

OK, so what was the missle (bomb) in Dark Star the first movie made by George Lucas?

John Carpenter's first film, actually. George Lucas' first film was THX 1138.

 

[BP]

Hmmm...

In one instance, I am using a 'machine that non-deterministically interacts with its environment' - as it has no form of locomotion or physical manipulators (though it could control such devices remotely or via hookups), but can speak (ok - technically that is physical manipulation of a gaseous medium ) and use wireless comms.

So basically an AI that is optimized for a purpose (investigative), and interacts with its surrounds - including sophonts and other machines (robots).

I suspect it will be accepted as a robot without question.

In the RW, I have worked on automation systems for testing/manufacturing and while they are called robots (especially by the marketing folks) most people would not refer to them as such. Maybe robotic arms, but not as 'robots'. I.e. they might associate them with the functionality of a robot, but not called it one outright. (Till they are exposed to people who do, of course).

 

[Dave Chase]

Drones are normally remotely controlled, although most of them have a
software that is sophisticated enough to allow them some very basic deci-
sions, for example not to crash into a mountainside, not to "harvest" hu-
man children instead of food animals, and so on.

But harvesting human adults is ok?

No, they are only after the heads.

Sounds like the ManHunter Universe .

Dave Chase

 

[Dave Chase]

OK, so what was the missle (bomb) in Dark Star the first movie made by George Lucas?

John Carpenter's first film, actually. George Lucas' first film was THX 1138.

Did I mix them up? :shock:

Sorry, my bad. I guess I should have double checked my head space and timing before posting. :lol:

Both were/are good movies for the time.

Dave Chsse

 

[captainjack23]

OK, so what was the missle (bomb) in Dark Star the first movie made by George Lucas?

it was very funny


in all seriousness I think trying to narrow the term to one specific function is pretty hard; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot.

Given that some of the machines that build cars are "robots" ... I would say it does not have to be capable of locomtion, but it does have to be capable of movement.

The original term "Robot" is a czec word meaning either "worker" or "slave" depending on who you ask. So, I'd suggest that a robot is an automated device that replaces human workers (or slaves). Many workers need to move around, many don't.

According to my young son, a droid is "a robot who has more to say".

According to my Dad, a weapons expert (EOD), a drone is explicitly expendable, much like the bees they are named after, and generally single task. They almost always have to be able to move to get where it,s too dangerous for a human to be.

I doubt that there will ever be tight exclusive definitions: Venn circles that overlap somewhat are probably the best you'll get. Didn't the original JTAS article on Robots have that as a venn diagram ?

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

The original term "Robot" is a czec word meaning either "worker" or "slave" depending on who you ask.

Actually, the word robota means specifically an indentured worker (not a slave... they didn't exist during the Middle Ages, although they had earlier). The best approximation is the compulsory days a feudal peasant worked for his lord on his fields.