Oh come on,get a grip - weapon dmg silly

Delerium said:
Dave, you might want to see what scores I gave in response to the post
"Whats the verdict on the supplements?".
I scored them all highly, with the exception of Mercenary which is a pig's ear in my and others' opinion.
Hey, it's tough enough keeping track of one thread -- now I have to cross-reference? :wink:

Delerium said:
Come on..gimme the errata!
I got a ARMP gun pointed right at you!

Oh..damn..its got no ammo, as they forgot to include it in the lists...
Fine, I'll blast you with my MRL battery. Um, could you step into the room? You're out of my range. :wink:
 
Travellingdave said:
Delerium said:
Dave, you might want to see what scores I gave in response to the post
"Whats the verdict on the supplements?".
I scored them all highly, with the exception of Mercenary which is a pig's ear in my and others' opinion.
Hey, it's tough enough keeping track of one thread -- now I have to cross-reference? :wink:

Delerium said:
Come on..gimme the errata!
I got a ARMP gun pointed right at you!

Oh..damn..its got no ammo, as they forgot to include it in the lists...
Fine, I'll blast you with my MRL battery. Um, could you step into the room? You're out of my range. :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
There doesn't seem much distinction between weapons (in CT there were less weapons so maybe it wasn't an issue) but I like the fact that a shot from a slug thrower or a laser is bad news. It's all about initiative and the Tactics skill is pretty darn useful!

Also, in CT characters fell unconscious with one stat at zero, now it takes 2. This makes for more enjoyable rpg combat. It's a well-paced playable system.
 
Not to be a pain in the butt, but a HOUSE RULE I have always used was I gave all characters (structure pts) thus I broke down the body parts into he following areas:

Head
Lt Arm / Rt Arm
Chest
Abdomen
Lt Leg / Rt Leg

Then through a formula (I don't have it with me here at work now) I figured out how many structure points each of the above body parts might have using a cross between Strength and Endurance(Con). The over all body structure points was more points than the persons total Health Points but when a body part reached Zero it was useless and or leads directly to ones character passing out or death. I had a hit location as well too.

My combat system is very fun to play.

Penn
 
Delerium said:
It all came about when my players happened upon a high TL gun. Imagine their sheer awe at the 12.5% dmg increment. /sarcasm

For me, 12.5% increase in dmg for a whole TL is absurd. You are welcome to differ. I am surprised anyone would, but there you go. Each to their own.

I think Traveller as it stands is working nicely. But these equipment and weapon issues need to be addressed, preferably in a big old update sheet or 2.

I agree with your general points and many specific points about Mercenary, but in regards to the 12.5% increment you're way off. A one TL improvement in an established technology is often only incremental. Does a modern rifle really do all that much more damage than a rifle in WW1, several TL ago? Unless you're introducing a new game-changing technology, many technologies don't get much better on every TL increment.

Also note that a TL18 fusion pistol is capable of autofire which a TL 17 one isn't, weighs less AND does more damage.

Simon Hibbs
 
simonh said:
Delerium said:
It all came about when my players happened upon a high TL gun. Imagine their sheer awe at the 12.5% dmg increment. /sarcasm

For me, 12.5% increase in dmg for a whole TL is absurd. You are welcome to differ. I am surprised anyone would, but there you go. Each to their own.

I think Traveller as it stands is working nicely. But these equipment and weapon issues need to be addressed, preferably in a big old update sheet or 2.

I agree with your general points and many specific points about Mercenary, but in regards to the 12.5% increment you're way off. A one TL improvement in an established technology is often only incremental. Does a modern rifle really do all that much more damage than a rifle in WW1, several TL ago? Unless you're introducing a new game-changing technology, many technologies don't get much better on every TL increment.

Also note that a TL18 fusion pistol is capable of autofire which a TL 17 one isn't, weighs less AND does more damage.

Simon Hibbs


Modern rifles must be more better than the old stuff to some extent,yes. If they weren't they wouldn't have been researched and developed and modern armies would be running about with old stuff etc. However, that is a matter for rifles experts to dither about with.

I was talking about far future weapons, the higher TLs of traveller.
I can easily imagine they are scalable with regards their damage.

However, I think 1 TL increment represents rather more than 50 years, looking at the descriptions of all the TLs.

And with regards to the 12.5% increment , that is correct, at least for the weapon I gave as an example.
No Fusion pistols have autofire. Unless your book is different from mine (Mongoose Merc 2008 Ed), which I doubt.

If you want another example, how about this:

Laser Rifle TL 11, 5d6+3, average 20.5 dmg or so

Then we jump to the far far future of TL 16
Plasma Rifle, 6d6 dmg, average 21 dmg.


Granted there are laser reflective armours and all the rest of it. The plasma rifle also have an excellent unlimited ammo source. But there again, a laser rifle just needs to be plugged in for recharge.

But a 2.5% damage increase, for a rifle style weapon,useable unaided.

Something ain't right there mate.
 
Delerium said:
Modern rifles must be more better than the old stuff to some extent,yes. If they weren't they wouldn't have been researched and developed and modern armies would be running about with old stuff etc. However, that is a matter for rifles experts to dither about with.

When I was in the army, our unit had both the old TL6 (G3) and the (then new) TL7 rifles (G36).
The TL7 rifles were lighter, had a higher ammo capacity, a far superior sight, were easier to handle and had a ton of useful small features like improved usability for left-handers.
But the TL6 rifle could make bigger holes.

Even the TL4 rifles (K98) only the Watch Batallion still uses are comparable to new TL7/8 ones if you only look at the "damage" they deal.

It seems to me that weapon technology has reached the point of "practical damage" for rifles a long time ago. You don't need to make bigger holes to stop the enemy. All that is left for the developers is to enable the soldiers to make this holes quicker, easier and more reliable, and make them even if the enemy wears armor.
 
Pyromancer said:
It seems to me that weapon technology has reached the point of "practical damage" for rifles a long time ago. You don't need to make bigger holes to stop the enemy. All that is left for the developers is to enable the soldiers to make this holes quicker, easier and more reliable, and make them even if the enemy wears armor.

Right. So better in other words.


However, this is not a discussion about slug throwers. :p
 
Delerium said:
However, this is not a discussion about slug throwers. :p

Slug throwers are the only weapons from different TLs that I have first hand experience with, so I use them as basis to extrapolate.

And this is a thread about weapon damage, right? looks at title
 
Nah, its about hi tech weapons in the Mercenary book specifically.

I don't blame for not wading through the rather large thread its become though!
 
Pyromancer said:
It seems to me that weapon technology has reached the point of "practical damage" for rifles a long time ago. You don't need to make bigger holes to stop the enemy. All that is left for the developers is to enable the soldiers to make this holes quicker, easier and more reliable, and make them even if the enemy wears armor.

Well, yes and no.

I am in no way an expert on smallarms (or artillery, for that matter), however you have forgotten ... or not considered ... several important factors ...

The most obvious is penetration ... the wearing of body armour has become much more common in modern armies and weapons technology, especially smallarms technology, has had to adapt to that.

I think most people are aware of the enhanced body-armour penetration capacity of the 5.7mm round used in the FN P-90 SMG/PDW and Five SeveN Pistol, compared to similar Pistol/SMG/PDW rounds (able to pierce the older U.S. Army PASGT vest at 300 meters range, and a U.S. Army PASGT helmet at a range of 240 meters).

Note also that Type IIA, II, and IIIA (in ascending order of effectiveness) are all designed to deal with increasingly higher velocity 9mm Parabellum rounds ...

What a lot of people don't know, however, is the story of tank/anti-tank gun rounds over the last 30 years or so since the development of composite armours. Muzzle velocity has gone up, considerably in some cases, but the design of the rounds themselves have had to be changed for each upgrade in the opfor's composite armour which is more important. The guns themselves haven't changed ...

As for the changeover from Battle Rifles (7.62 NATO or equivalent) to Assault Rifles (5.56mm NATO, M43 Soviet or equivalent) the Australian Army's reason for doing so (as it was relayed to me as a Recruit in the CMF way back in 1974-75) was that the emphasis was shifting from individual long range marksmanship (our SLRs ... FN FAL's to the rest of you) were capable of hitting targets at 600 meters without anything more than iron sights (not that *I* ... or most of us ... were capable of doing that ourselves, but the weapons were) and were sighted in for, IIRC, 100 meters ... the M-16's we had (and, I understand, tho only second or third hand, the Steyr AUG's) were only expected to be as capable to 250-300 meters and were sighted in to only 50 meters.

The issue was training time ... even tho the RAA is a relatively highly professional army compared to most world armies, the idea of lifetime professional soldiers was well and truly gone, and it was inceasingly accepted that weapons had to be suited to citizen soldiers called up in an emergency where extended weapons training for high levels of long range marksmanship wasn't a realistic option.

I understand that, currently, the Army's thinking has changed and they are possibly looking to replace the AUG with a more SLR-like Battle Rifle, emphasising marksmanship at long range again, so these things may well go in cycles.

The thing is, it depends on what sort of soldiers you expect to be fielding. If it's long service professionals, then you can afford to train them for high levels of long range marksmanship (unless they're specialists other than Infantry, in which case the training time is used for their particular specialties), if, however, they're expected to be relatively short service types, then that's a waste of resources ... weapons choice is probably at least as much affected by that as by cost and availability.

Mercenaries as per the Traveller book? There's no money in it, really, not with the Ticket rules as written. So you won't be attracting high quality long serving professionals, realistically.

I believe that your comments don't fully deal with the complexities of the issue ... but YMMV of course :shock:

Phil
 
JF Baston said:
By the way, are TNE weapons compatible :?:
If it's the case, weapons could be designed with "Fire Fusion & Stell".

Else you can use "Guns Guns Guns" by BTRC.

No, there were some serious changes as to how tech worked in TNE as compared to earlier versions. So, for example, thruster plates was non-existent in TNE, instead TNE used HePLAR drives (plasma). As for weaponry, FFE&S was developed and TNE weapons were designed using those rules. BUT if you're not pickish you can of course "eyeball" the TNE weapons and just use them with some minor mods (as the TNE rules are completely different from CT, MT and T4). T4 used a mix of old and TNE tech assumptions, resulting in a tech design book called FF&S2 (however this book is in many ways inferior to TNE:s version).

My choice would be 3G3 (Guns Guns Guns) for weapons design.
 
drdentista said:
JF Baston said:
By the way, are TNE weapons compatible :?:
If it's the case, weapons could be designed with "Fire Fusion & Stell".

Else you can use "Guns Guns Guns" by BTRC.

No, there were some serious changes as to how tech worked in TNE as compared to earlier versions. So, for example, thruster plates was non-existent in TNE, instead TNE used HePLAR drives (plasma). As for weaponry, FFE&S was developed and TNE weapons were designed using those rules. BUT if you're not pickish you can of course "eyeball" the TNE weapons and just use them with some minor mods (as the TNE rules are completely different from CT, MT and T4). T4 used a mix of old and TNE tech assumptions, resulting in a tech design book called FF&S2 (however this book is in many ways inferior to TNE:s version).

My choice would be 3G3 (Guns Guns Guns) for weapons design.

3G3 has had conversions for 3 editions of Traveller: Megatraveller, TNE, and T4.

It also has GURPS and Hero System conversions, and so is usable with GT and HT.

likewise, it's possible to get MT pens from TNE pens, but it's not a good fit.
 
Yep, that's right Aramis. 3G3 works with MT, TNE and T4, although I imagine that if you design a weapon for T4 you could "extrapolate" ranges and damage quite easily. Of course, if you´re very "gearheady" this wouldn't suffice, but for me it's quite OK. It's a RPG after all...:)
 
And, BTW, I've mailed BTRC about if they are going to relese design sequences for MGT, but I haven't receiced any answer yet.

I suppose, the basic design sequence is the same, but the equations to compute ranges, damage and such will differ some...

I know Andy Slack has made 3G3 conversion rules for 2300AD. Has anyone made the same for CT? Anyone knows?
 
drdentista said:
And, BTW, I've mailed BTRC about if they are going to relese design sequences for MGT, but I haven't receiced any answer yet.

I suppose, the basic design sequence is the same, but the equations to compute ranges, damage and such will differ some...

BTRC's "Stuff" should handle it ... it covers 3G3, Corps, GURPS, Hero, Action System, Silhouette Core, Savage Worlds and JAGS as it is and there are some simple conversion notes that will enable you to use it for MongTrav easy enough.

Phil
 
I have been playing rpgs since the original D&D ( yes we still play it from time to time ) I have been playing traveller since 1977 even back in the day we had these types of problems . so let the companies know what you think ( politely , this is called feed back ) but we also have a saying rulings more than rules . remember the G.M. is right because someday it will be your turn .
just my 2 cents worth
 
on the subject of guns - can someone tell me why gauss rifles have low recoil? Even with a small bullet (4mm), higher velocity should mean higher recoil. f=ma and all that...
 
its the way they are fired. due to using magnetic rails to accelerate things it has nothing pressing backwards. unlike a normal rifle that has all the eplosive gases propelling it which has to push against the rear of the gun for forward momentum.
 
katadder said:
its the way they are fired. due to using magnetic rails to accelerate things it has nothing pressing backwards. unlike a normal rifle that has all the eplosive gases propelling it which has to push against the rear of the gun for forward momentum.

No it isn't. Conservation of momentum means the momentum of the weapon must be equal and opposite to the momentum of the projectile.
 
Back
Top