OGL and IPR

[DM]

The recent chat on the forum regarding supplements for BFE got me thinking about IPR issues (I guess thats what comes of spending too much time on TMP as well!).

What is the situation regarding IPR? I can see a few interesting situations arising and it would be good to get an official view on how this all works. For example someone decides to write a supplement on a certain faction (perhaps on Canadian modern forces, so bringing in stats for LAV and Leopard 2),that uses equipment already statted in an existing MGP product or a product produced by a 3rd party under the OGL. What's to do there? Is the author allowed to repeat the existing stats, or must they make up their own? The former would be preferable for consistency (unless of course the existing stats were wrong) - but presumably an acknowledgement of the source would be required. Would the author be required to pay the originator in some way?

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

It's really up to the writers in question to come to an agreement in that case. If it's a pair of not-for-profit publications, then a simple reference and link may be enough. But if one or both of the items are written for profit then it can get complicated.

That said, the nature of the game means there's only a small range of stats that you can give to most vehicles or infantry types, so some overlap is to be expected.

 

[Agis]

Very interesting question.
IMO if you are using a simple weapon stat it is not so much a problem, if you are reusing a complete vehicle design it is a violation of IPR.
Oh yeah the whole Open Content thing is a can of open worms, I am really curious how it will work...
:wink:

The least you have to do is ask the author, or?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Once something is Open, it must always stay Open - so, you can use material from other publishers with nothing more than a mention in section 15 of the OGL.

So, if you don't want the potential of other people using your material, don't release it! The flip side, of course, is that you can use everything that has come before as a base for your own work - this is why Open Content publishers tend to form their own community. Someone might release stats for, say, an F-14 Tomcat, and someone else might come along and say 'hey, great ideas, I'll use that in my US Naval campaign'.

We are currently looking at making all of our army lists Open (we were not going to originally, but there seems little reason not to for real world armies), which will give a wide base line for others to build their own supplements - there will be an official Leopard 2, Abrams, etc - of course, you are not _required_ to use them, and someone might want their own version of an Abrams (say), but they will be trying to sell their version against the one everyone else is already using. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't.

There has been a policy among many D20 publishers to give a nod to the original author and effectively ask permission to use material but a) this is fundamentally not necessary (and, indeed, bypasses part of what the OGL is all about) and b) can cause problems at higher commercial levels. After all, what can you do if they say no (as has happened with us in the past!)? They would effectively be trying to protect something that is Open, which goes against the original arrangement in the first place. There can also be problems tracking people down, people not answering emails in a timely fashion, risking your deadlines, and so on.

The core of Open is as I said - once Open, it stays Open. Don't publish under the OGL if you don't want others potentially using your work.

 

[DM]

Sounds like an interesting foray into the unknown for many of us then I'm aware of OGL applied to RPGs, but has anyone used this approach for historical wargaming? I'm not aware of it having been done so far.

 

[DaWarbossMI]

While I'm also treading in new territory here (OGL for miniatures rules), my educated guess would be that it would work similar to OGLs for d20 products. Any game stats would be open (you cannot legally copyright math, this is how you can essentially rewrite a closed content game by changing all of the text and renaming stats, abilties, feats, etc). Any fluff, background text, etc is closed. One of the better examples of this I have seen is with Fantasy Flight's Midnight world for d20. Each section of their books starts with a header "this section is designated as closed content" or "this section is designated as open content". If its closed, you cannot reproduce it. If it is open, like Matt said, its COMPETELY fair game. When IP is considered, you simply have to ask youself "was this a persons creative effort and therefore copyrighted under law", or is this a persons numeric representation of a units perceived battlefield abilities or traits.


Just my take. Any input would be highly appreciated since I'm part of a group publishing under OGLs

Jay

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Once something is Open, it must always stay Open - so, you can use material from other publishers with nothing more than a mention in section 15 of the OGL.

So, if you don't want the potential of other people using your material, don't release it! The flip side, of course, is that you can use everything that has come before as a base for your own work - this is why Open Content publishers tend to form their own community. Someone might release stats for, say, an F-14 Tomcat, and someone else might come along and say 'hey, great ideas, I'll use that in my US Naval campaign'.

So is that a prerequsite of any work published using OGL Material? Could, for example, a Star Wars OGL game come along and use the starship combat system from the B5 RPG? Or is there some way to keep sections of your work propretary while using a free-to-share OGL core?

 

[DaWarbossMI]

So is that a prerequsite of any work published using OGL Material? Could, for example, a Star Wars OGL game come along and use the starship combat system from the B5 RPG? Or is there some way to keep sections of your work propretary while using a free-to-share OGL core?

If I'm not mistaken (or Mongoose prohibits other licenses coinciding with their open license), you could obtain rights to another IP for the fluff/background etc (good luck with the Star Wars... hope you've got a small fortune or compromising photos of Lucas).

The creative end would be closed content and the rules open. I'm not quite sure how proprietary units would work (e.g. a Stormtrooper Squad). I'd guess that people not holding the license could use the stat lines but definitely NOT the name.

Jay

 

[MongooseMatt]

Sounds like an interesting foray into the unknown for many of us then I'm aware of OGL applied to RPGs, but has anyone used this approach for historical wargaming? I'm not aware of it having been done so far.

We are not aware of any either - should be interesting if nothing else!

 

[DM]

Let it never be said that you fear to break new ground

 

[MongooseMatt]

So is that a prerequsite of any work published using OGL Material? Could, for example, a Star Wars OGL game come along and use the starship combat system from the B5 RPG? Or is there some way to keep sections of your work propretary while using a free-to-share OGL core?

It works something like this. . .

Anything you base upon material that is already Open (like, for example, game stats) has to remain Open. Anything else is up to you.

Now, to take your example above, you could indeed use the B5 space combat system for Star Wars (presuming Lucasfilm gave you the licence for Star Wars!). Indeed, the original B5 RPG space combat system was heavily based on that from Dragonstar.

What you could not do was use any Babylon 5 references (you could not mention Starfuries, for example), as that is most certainly not Open.

Many RPG companies (including Mongoose) started using 'boilerplate' declarations - you will see it in many of our D20-based books. We basically state that all game mechanics are Open, but everything else is not. This allows us to work very easily with the OGL, ensuring everything that is derived from Open stays Open, and that we do not fall foul of another publisher by an honest mistake. It means that all mechanics we create ourselves are also Open, but we never had a problem with that. All text (including 'descriptive' text and unit names) are closed, protecting our IP.

Now, some smaller publishers complained about this practice, as they felt Open Content should be presented in boxes or italics, but defining the content as 'all mechanics' is perfectly legal, and everyone understands what you mean by it. It also has the benefit of ensuring the creation of new Open Content, as all mechanics become habitually Open, thus adding to the material available to future publishers - very much in spirit of the OGL 'community'.

To illustrate this, suppose someone produced BF Evo: Star Wars and statted a Stormtrooper unit. The stats (Target, Kill, weapon ranges, etc) must be Open. However, with the boilerplate declaration above, the term Stormtrooper or the descriptive text explaining what the unit is are not Open.

To complicate things (!), suppose BF Evo: Star Wars created a new trait, say, Force Push. The mechanics for the trait would have to be rooted in BF Evo (because they would likely interact with Open mechanics, such as Target and Kill scores), and would thus be Open. However, the text _explaining_ the mechanics, which would likely have references to Jedi, could well be closed, at the publisher's option.

This would mean you could not copy and paste that text - however, you could re-write the text to use the same mechanics.

If this seems confusing, read up on Open Content and its uses further on various RPG sites (wizards.com is a ood place to start). It really is very easy to get to grips with, but if you use it, make sure you do it right (especially if you are planning to bring things to print. . .).

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

So is that a prerequsite of any work published using OGL Material? Could, for example, a Star Wars OGL game come along and use the starship combat system from the B5 RPG? Or is there some way to keep sections of your work propretary while using a free-to-share OGL core?

If I'm not mistaken (or Mongoose prohibits other licenses coinciding with their open license), you could obtain rights to another IP for the fluff/background etc (good luck with the Star Wars... hope you've got a small fortune or compromising photos of Lucas).

The creative end would be closed content and the rules open. I'm not quite sure how proprietary units would work (e.g. a Stormtrooper Squad). I'd guess that people not holding the license could use the stat lines but definitely NOT the name.

Jay

I'm keeping my compromising photos of George Lucas to prevent the release of the Prequel Trilogy Special Editions (with even more CG!), but I just mentioned Star Wars as a top-of-the-head example. The same example could stand if I was making my own proprietary SF setting.

What I'm thinking of is if you're writing rules that plug into an existing OGL system but is there a way to protect them or do they become OGL by default of association?