Noob Question
- Thread starter Gregster
- Start date
Iain McGhee
Mongoose
That's in the Second Edition, believe any fighter with non-weak weapons can do this but at the risk of being destroyed.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Much as I like this idea, I'm curious what the justification is? I don't remember ever seeing fighters doing this on screen...
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
When do we see that? I don't remember it... :?
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
we did, starfuries are seen shooting down missiles in "Endgame" and iirc intercepting ship fire in another episode.
Plus JMS said in an interview it was one of the roles of the starfury
Plus JMS said in an interview it was one of the roles of the starfury
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Interesting...
Lord David the Denied said:
At the beginning of the episode "Severed Dreams" for one. When the rebel ships are escaping to B5, on The Alexander, Bill says to Major Ryan that if they bring in their fighters, they'll use their screen and you can actually see them being used to intercept pulse cannon fire.
Really sad about the weak weapon thing...especially as 1 ad of non-weak is considered better than 3 ad of weak for intercept purposes? Makes the fluff hard to swallow even if it sounds okay for those who insist 'weak' means useless.
The other downside is that the weakest fighters in the game became even worse in comparison under the new rules. Effectively Raiders and Abbai (and to a degree Drazi) became even weaker in relation to other races as they tend to have interceptable weapons and less access to interceptors due to standard fighters being unable to fill this role.
Ripple
The other downside is that the weakest fighters in the game became even worse in comparison under the new rules. Effectively Raiders and Abbai (and to a degree Drazi) became even weaker in relation to other races as they tend to have interceptable weapons and less access to interceptors due to standard fighters being unable to fill this role.
Ripple
Iain McGhee
Mongoose
One of the definitions of "weak" in 1e was lower quality targeting systems, which you could read as the deciding factor on what could be used to intercept incoming fire. I'm sure Drazi players would be quite happy for their opponents to keep their fighters with their ships to supplement their interceptors as they're one of the main threats for most Drazi ships. And with the amount of fire the Abbai tend to throw at a target the fighters on interceptor duty are likely to take a fair number of casualties unless they're really lucky with their dice rolling.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
The Abbai and Drakh are the only race that don't have fighters that can perform interceptor duty - and they both have defences on their ships already. Raiders and Vorlons have to pay for the fighters to do it. Using Skyserpents as interceptors probably isn't the best use of them though. 
Not sure I find myself in agreement here with either of you, in part cause I don't believe you addressed the issue. Specifically, that the races in question went down in relative worth.
Drazi - I agree that many Drazi ships are fighter bait, or were under the old rules. Now you have a useful guardhawk, to provide cover against smaller numbers of fighters, ie the formation most likely to be used as interceptors. Rolling a '1' is not so common I'd not put a few fighters up as interceptors if I don't have enough to threaten a ship.
Abbai - everyone has always talked about the huge numbers of dice they throw as being death itself. Guess I don't see it that often, as we've yet to have a Binith survive a frontal attack long enough to get in firing range. The one that did a flank attack got in three shots (using three arcs no less) against an apollo and two chronus and failed to harm them enough to matter. Must be the local karma that Abbai 'hordes of dice' rarely get in range or through interceptors in any significant numbers. The precise beams on the other hand have been dangerous. Given most of the abbai have had their interceptors stripped off and replaced with shields (at the cost of hull) I fail to see why them having the ability to intercept would be any more egregious than Minbari or ISA, both of whom also have other defenses. If interceptor fighters was an exclusively Narn rule to cover the lack of a primary defense I could see it...but...
Raiders and Vorlons - yep...they pay...meaning they pay for an ability that other races get free...so they went down in relative worth, all else being equal. And right now 'all else' appears to be fairly equal.
Agreed on the idea that bombers better have something better to do than intercept...
Iain pointed out the 'fluff' definition of weak being the basis. I agree, I can think of many good fluff explanations for why some fighters cannot target and others can. But I guess I have trouble with the idea that I can hit a jinking fighter with my weak but not the missile incoming moving in roughly a straight line. A big clumsy ion bolt is better at stopping pulse fire than my two or three weak pulse weapons firing into the same stream.
Add in the game play element of making the worst fighters even worse (in relative terms) and your recreating one of the things they tried to eliminate this time...ship choices that are not worth taking. We've generally found it was not worth taking the time to launch either Raider or Abbai fighters. Better to get the ships into the fight as quickly as possible.
At least under the old rules they would escort you in and take one for the team so you could shoot the offending flight with your ships guns. But that use for weak fighters went away. Now what exactly do they do that makes them worth putting on the table and slowing you fleet down for?
Ripple
Drazi - I agree that many Drazi ships are fighter bait, or were under the old rules. Now you have a useful guardhawk, to provide cover against smaller numbers of fighters, ie the formation most likely to be used as interceptors. Rolling a '1' is not so common I'd not put a few fighters up as interceptors if I don't have enough to threaten a ship.
Abbai - everyone has always talked about the huge numbers of dice they throw as being death itself. Guess I don't see it that often, as we've yet to have a Binith survive a frontal attack long enough to get in firing range. The one that did a flank attack got in three shots (using three arcs no less) against an apollo and two chronus and failed to harm them enough to matter. Must be the local karma that Abbai 'hordes of dice' rarely get in range or through interceptors in any significant numbers. The precise beams on the other hand have been dangerous. Given most of the abbai have had their interceptors stripped off and replaced with shields (at the cost of hull) I fail to see why them having the ability to intercept would be any more egregious than Minbari or ISA, both of whom also have other defenses. If interceptor fighters was an exclusively Narn rule to cover the lack of a primary defense I could see it...but...
Raiders and Vorlons - yep...they pay...meaning they pay for an ability that other races get free...so they went down in relative worth, all else being equal. And right now 'all else' appears to be fairly equal.
Agreed on the idea that bombers better have something better to do than intercept...
Iain pointed out the 'fluff' definition of weak being the basis. I agree, I can think of many good fluff explanations for why some fighters cannot target and others can. But I guess I have trouble with the idea that I can hit a jinking fighter with my weak but not the missile incoming moving in roughly a straight line. A big clumsy ion bolt is better at stopping pulse fire than my two or three weak pulse weapons firing into the same stream.
Add in the game play element of making the worst fighters even worse (in relative terms) and your recreating one of the things they tried to eliminate this time...ship choices that are not worth taking. We've generally found it was not worth taking the time to launch either Raider or Abbai fighters. Better to get the ships into the fight as quickly as possible.
At least under the old rules they would escort you in and take one for the team so you could shoot the offending flight with your ships guns. But that use for weak fighters went away. Now what exactly do they do that makes them worth putting on the table and slowing you fleet down for?
Ripple
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Ripple said:
I didn't realise there was an issue to address. I was merely providing additional information in response to the question posed by the original poster.
Addressing the issue of wether Drazi have gone down in worth because Starsnakes cannot intercept. Drazi do have free fighters that can intercept - just that it is not the best use for them. Have starsnakes been devalued? Possibly - although the best use for them was probably escorting Skyserpents.
Again, ignoring the other issues - I will concede that Kothas are the least useful fighter in the game. Actually if they could intercept that would probably be their best use.
Well I would dispute that all alse is equal. Raiders now have a fleet carrier, making their fighters potentially better against enemy fighters. Vorlon fighters are significantly better - the new beam rules make their weapon better and they have AAF.
I would disagree with you on the Raiders, since they have so many that they are a significant portion of the Raider's armament. I can only agree with you on the Abbai.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
and if Kothas (a very cheap fighter at 8 per wing) could intercept on top of the already formidable Abbai shields, the Abbai would be too hard to hurt with non-beam weapons
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
I think Kothas are mainly there to make your side of the table look more interesting. Well, that and to delay enemy fighters in dogfights, but that´s about it.
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