New to Rune Quest and wondering...

[duncan_disorderly]

Its still Runequest, but its also different.

Yep, Other than the Combat system, the Magic System(s), the experience systems, the opposed resolution systems, Criticals becoming more common, "Special" successes (Impales) dissapearing, the introduction of Hero Points and the introduction of Legendary abilities, it's exactly the same...

The Glorantha books are very very good and made it very easy to get to grips with the setting. The main setting book and PLayers guide are very very good, and gives you a great intro to the world. Cults 1 is great book (though if you compare spell for spell with old books, you might get concerned as spell lists arent the same always), Cults 2 has good ideas but spirit magic is a confusing mess.

I'd not reccommend Cults 1 or 2 to anyone. I'm asuming at some stage, Mongoose will get around to producing a properly edited version of these as a single volume, with rules that actually work, and cults not shorn of their signature spells.
If you are interested in Gloranthan Cults then Moon Design's "Cults Compendium" is a far better bet (It's a reprint of the RQ2 classics "Cults of Prax" and "Cults of Terror", together with a variety of other RQ2 cults from various sources").

 

[Halfbat]

If you are interested in Gloranthan Cults then Moon Design's "Cults Compendium" is a far better bet (It's a reprint of the RQ2 classics "Cults of Prax" and "Cults of Terror", together with a variety of other RQ2 cults from various sources").

I'd second this. Though the proliferation of skills in this shouldn't be ported into MRQ, the Cults Compendium is, indeed, excellent.

As far as MRQ vs previous RQ goes, on the whole it has the same feel but with some oddities. The really big advantage is that it has the same advantages of previous RQ editions: it is easy to tweak and tinker to own tastes and yet still allow others who are coming into it to recognise it as RQ.

 

[Trifletraxor]

4th edition would be RQ:AiG - RuneQuest: Adventures in Glorantha.
I would say technically this is Mongoose RuneQuest 1st edition. It uses a d100 for skill resolution, but is not much of a continium of the previous editions. It's not like Mongoose is paying any royalty fees to the original creators of RuneQuest.

SGL.

Depends on what their licensing agreement with Stafford says. Im sure he didnt give it away for free

Stafford was not one of the creators of RuneQuest, neither does he own the rules. Ha can therefor not license or give them away.

Mongoose licence the tradename "RuneQuest" which he grabbed in front of Chaosium when it expired, and the setting Glorantha. Mongoose do not license the rules.

Basic Roleplaying is coming out this fall, and Chaosium owns those rules. This is the true follower of the old RuneQuest. As far as I heard, they will be licensing the use to third parties, and Seraphim Guard will produce a setting under those rules.

SGL.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Well, Greg _was_ one of the original authors, although I think most of the rule mechanics was designed by Steve Perrin. Trifletraxor is correct in stating that the original ruleset is copyrighted by Chaosium and the mere RuneQuest "brand" (which is nevertheless considered a valuable asset) is owned by Issaries, which is not the same as Greg although he is the CEO.

In any case, Issaries/Mongoose and Chaosium are technically competitors, but it looks like they are not adversaries. This is important for us fans.

I think the real advantage is that supplements made for one system can easily be adapted to the other, so if Chaosium puts out expansions at 10% the rate Mongoose does we will be literally flooded with d100 stuff. Which is a very, very pleasant thought

P.S.: as one of the [many] Entomo-Gloranthaphiles, may I ask where did your beetle-avatar go, Trif?

 

[Mikko Leho]

Stafford was not one of the creators of RuneQuest, neither does he own the rules. Ha can therefor not license or give them away.

Mongoose licence the tradename "RuneQuest" which he grabbed in front of Chaosium when it expired, and the setting Glorantha. Mongoose do not license the rules.

No one can claim ownership to game rules. After all most of Runequest's game mechanics were lifted from D&D. Trademark and copyright are different matters, but Mongoose didn't change RQ game mechanics to avoid law suits.

 

[RosenMcStern]

No one can claim ownership to game rules. After all most of Runequest's game mechanics were lifted from D&D. Trademark and copyright are different matters, but Mongoose didn't change RQ game mechanics to avoid law suits.

Hmmm, I think Hasbro attorneys would not be so confident as you WRT game rules ownership

As for D&D rules ==> RQ rules, well, apart from how the characteristics are rolled, I can see no similarities at all. Unless you regard the concept of "characters wielding weapons to inflict wounds to monsters" as the mechanics that was copied.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

This too was never officially released, as Avalon Hill were bought up by Hasboro, who pulled the plug.

Hey that sounds like when Games Workshop had the licence to publish all the UK editions of the RQ3 stuff and they simply didn't support it. They went through a period in the mid to late 80's of buying up all the other games and then simply not producing them .

 

[Mikko Leho]

As for D&D rules ==> RQ rules, well, apart from how the characteristics are rolled, I can see no similarities at all. Unless you regard the concept of "characters wielding weapons to inflict wounds to monsters" as the mechanics that was copied.

Roll under % and characteristics were directly influenced by D&D. Additionally there were rules for different hit locations published by a fan magazine. RQ copied armor absorbency and spell points from Tunnels and Trolls. The whole field of role playing games is full of borrowing and copying. If someone would sue over a rule set you better make sure you were not borrowing from someone else.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

No one can claim ownership to game rules. After all most of Runequest's game mechanics were lifted from D&D. Trademark and copyright are different matters, but Mongoose didn't change RQ game mechanics to avoid law suits.

Hmmm, I think Hasbro attorneys would not be so confident as you WRT game rules ownership

IANAL but...
It is my understanding that you cant copyright game rules, only the expression of those rules. So, to take a (currently) none OGL and topical game as an example, You can not scan, photocopy or retype the rules to Traveller without breaching copyright. You could, however, legally use the Traveller system for your own game, providing you re-wrote them from scratch. (OGL games allow you to copy the words directly out of the SRD).

The name of a game is probably covered by a Trademark. Issaries currently owns the Runequest Trademark and have licenced it to Mongoose. This means that, for instance, Chaosium can't use the Runequest name for its new BRP system without permission from Greg (and/or Matt - I'm not sure of the exact nature of the licence terms).
Similarly d20 is a WotC Trademark. They allow other companies to use it if they comply with the d20 licence (which is separate from, and more restrictive than, the OGL). "Dungeons & Dragons" is another WotC/Hasboro Trademark. This is not generally available, which is why anyone can make a d20 book, but only WotC can make a "Dungeons & Dragons" one


Of course there is also the argument that Hasbro never owned the RQ mechanics anyway - they owned the name, but the RQIII design was done by Chaosium, who retained ownership of the system which was used in CoC and Elric/Stormbringer (Not sure what other BRP games post-date RQ3)

 

[RosenMcStern]

It is my understanding that you cant copyright game rules

Sure. But I am afraid that you can patent them. Which is much worse. Luckily no one did it so far.

 

[Trifletraxor]

Roll under % and characteristics were directly influenced by D&D. Additionally there were rules for different hit locations published by a fan magazine. RQ copied armor absorbency and spell points from Tunnels and Trolls. The whole field of role playing games is full of borrowing and copying. If someone would sue over a rule set you better make sure you were not borrowing from someone else.

Taking a rule here and there is one thing. I do not believe you can take an entire system, just rewrite the words but not the content, and then start selling it though. Chaosium owns the BRP ruleset. An identical copy of the content (if not the wording) would lead to a lawsuit I think.

SGL.

 

[Trifletraxor]

P.S.: as one of the [many] Entomo-Gloranthaphiles, may I ask where did your beetle-avatar go, Trif?

It was just hiding behind the red goddess! 8)

By the way, for my link list: Stupor Mundi, is that your creation? RosenMcStern, is that a real name or just a nick?

SGL.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Cool spawn of Gorakiki-beetle! And yes, for those who did not know it, these big, bulky rhino beetles can fly, too. Hmm, do the giant specimens herded by Uz fly, too?

WRT Stupor Mundi, where were you in the last three months? Yes, it is my work. And if you had done your homework properly and read the WorldOfGlorantha mailing list carefullly you would know RosenMcStern is a nickname. Not to mention the fact that there are many, many more bug lovers than you might think around here.

 

[zozotroll]

As for D&D rules ==> RQ rules, well, apart from how the characteristics are rolled, I can see no similarities at all. Unless you regard the concept of "characters wielding weapons to inflict wounds to monsters" as the mechanics that was copied.

Roll under % and characteristics were directly influenced by D&D. Additionally there were rules for different hit locations published by a fan magazine. RQ copied armor absorbency and spell points from Tunnels and Trolls. The whole field of role playing games is full of borrowing and copying. If someone would sue over a rule set you better make sure you were not borrowing from someone else.

Actualy RQ was written well before DnD was first published. If you can find Steve Perrins site, and go through the early history of the SCA, you get a fell for how it evolved. It just didnt get published for a number of years.

Chaosium, like TSR was a wargame company before they did RPG. It is hard to see how Gygax was influencing Perrin and Stafford when niether knew what the other was doing.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Actualy RQ was written well before DnD was first published. If you can find Steve Perrins site, and go through the early history of the SCA, you get a fell for how it evolved. It just didnt get published for a number of years.

Its funny how Perrin has stated in interviews that most of RQ's rules came from their house rules for D&D.

Glorantha however predates D&D (and fantasy wargaming propably) by quite a bit though.


As far as whether MRQ is like runequest or not, there's a lot of changes, but how long has it been since RQ3 ? From the playtest of the upcoming BRP rules, those will have a lot more in common with Stormbringer than with RQ3. Sure, there'll be strike ranks in there, but even CHaosium has used other options for their endeavours.


THe problem lies thus: There is a significant portion of people who would only have been happy if Mongoose had released Runequest 2 or 3 word for word, with no changes. We all knew that was not going to happen, and Im not sure I'd have wanted that anyways.

In MRQ "not runequest" because it has actions instead of strike ranks ? Depends on what your definition is. Im reminded of the D&D players claiming that D20 is "not D&D" because WOTC dared to make changes.

 

[Trifletraxor]

Cool spawn of Gorakiki-beetle! And yes, for those who did not know it, these big, bulky rhino beetles can fly, too. Hmm, do the giant specimens herded by Uz fly, too?

WRT Stupor Mundi, where were you in the last three months? Yes, it is my work. And if you had done your homework properly and read the WorldOfGlorantha mailing list carefullly you would know RosenMcStern is a nickname. Not to mention the fact that there are many, many more bug lovers than you might think around here.

Of course they can fly! With trollkin pilots! 8)

I glance at the daily digest of WoG every day, but I rarely read it. It has easily become just as horrible as the old Glorantha Digest. :?

SGL.

 

[Mikko Leho]

Chaosium, like TSR was a wargame company before they did RPG. It is hard to see how Gygax was influencing Perrin and Stafford when niether knew what the other was doing.

In his own words Greg knew what Gygax was doing and wasn't very interested. In fact he apparently held in his hands the very first D&D ever come out of the printer. Later he was contacted by people, who wanted to do D&D better than TSR. So, yes Glorantha is older than D&D but D&D predates RQ. I am not familiar Perrin's involvement but RQ is so clearly influenced by D&D and T&T that in my opinion there is zero chance of coincidence.

Taking a rule here and there is one thing. I do not believe you can take an entire system, just rewrite the words but not the content, and then start selling it though. Chaosium owns the BRP ruleset. An identical copy of the content (if not the wording) would lead to a lawsuit I think.

What the court would feel about that case is not clear cut. RQ in all of its incarnations has been a collection of borrowed and original ideas. How much changes and new ideas are needed to make a game stand on its own? Are rules ideas or expressions of ideas? Suing over RPG rules would require some really good answers to these questions and making sure it doesn't backfire on you.

 

[zozotroll]

My old copy of RQ1 says Perrin wrote it, with others mentioned, includeing Stafford. Stafford created the world, Perrin created RQ to run in it. Apperently Stafford was the house DM.

 

[Trifletraxor]

Just a quote from Steve Perrin on the rq-rules message list:

"Original RuneQuest system was purely me, Ray Turney (magic), Steve Henderson (general editing), and Warren James (some monsters). For 2nd ed we got some input from people like John Sapienza. Greg added material in RQIII.

Steve Perrin"

SGL.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Perrin is a gentleman btw. He even responded to an inane email I sent him a long time ago