New to Glorantha

[Aninemity]

Okay, so I'm new to Glorantha as a setting. I've never played or run it before. I've got most of the books for the second age, but i've noticed that when looking online for fansites and any other detailed information, everything seems to be from the older stuff, which i know absolutely nothing about.
All i've been able to find so far are snipits and bits that are hard to piece into a complete timeline or information.

Does anyone know where i can find a history or timeline of Glorantha, including the older (future) events that are pre-MRQ?

Cheers

 

[RosenMcStern]

Most fansites so far, as well as www.glorantha.com, deal with the Third Age. You can find an overview of Gloranthan history from the Godtime to the Third Age in any introductory book, which includes: Deluxe Runequest 3 or World of Glorantha from Avalon Hill (both out of print) and Introduction to Glorantha from Issaries Inc. In general, you will find suitable products in both the Issaries and Moon Design catalogue. However, keep in mind that all these products are 5% history and 95% Third Age background, which is of little use when you are playing in the Second Age.

 

[Loz]

I'd recommend two books from the Stafford Library and available from Moon Design (www.glorantha.com).

History of the Heortling Peoples is a Second Age resource covering the EWF and Old Ways Traditionalists, and The Middle Sea Empire is the foundation document for the God Learners.

If you want to explore Dara Happan history then Glorious ReAscent of Yelm and Fortunate Succession both have extensive chronologies and detail for the Second Age.

I know that Greg is working on two special books for the Tentacles and Continuum conventions this year, and I understand they have considerable Second Age content.

 

[Aninemity]

Thanks for those. I'll have a look at those

It's a shame there isn't just a complete timeline anywhere, but i assume that's because of the change in publishers and licensing and such.

thanks!

 

[Loz]

It's a shame there isn't just a complete timeline anywhere, but i assume that's because of the change in publishers and licensing and such.

It's not that so much as the complexity of Glorantha's history and the focus on the Third Age (which has many extensive timelines already published). The Second Age does have plenty of defined moments and battles, and as it get more focus through Mongoose and other development work, I dare say you'll see a more extensive Second Age timeline growing.

 

[Cleombrotus]

The Gloranthan timeline has always been a source of great frustration for roleplayers. Because the world was not originally intended for roleplaying, it has always been in a state of flux. Does your head in a lot of the time. I remember the notion of the siege of Whitewall hinted at in Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars. We had to wait years for the 'official outcome' and in the meantime it was quite unusable as a campaign feature because you knew it was a major event and you'd end up representing it in a completely inappropriate manner.

There are many people who would think, I'll do what I want with it - it's only a game. All well and good, but I just don't know/have never met anyone who plays in Glorantha that isn't somewhat obsessed with 'accuracy' which is bit of a daft concept in many ways, but seems to permeate Glorantha in a way that rivals, even outstrips, Middle Earth.

I loved the idea that Columbia Games used for Harn. They published loads of history, but every supplement, every reference stopped at the year 720 TR. From that point of history onward, the world was yours to do with as you wished. This makes more sense to me after all these years than the idea of the 'blank land'. Give me a stretch of blank history.

Of course there's loads of blank spaces in Gloranthan history to develop into which entire wars could be retro-fitted, but I liked the sense of ownership that Harn gives the player. Glorantha is very rigidly controlled in many ways (YGWV aside) but the weird thing is that however frustrating this is, it's still utterly compelling and it's even enjoyable to bask in it which is what these forums are all about.

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

Try http://www.glorantha.com/library/history/cot-history.html for history and http://www.glorantha.com/library/history/cot-cosmology.html for pre-history.

 

[soltakss]

Peter Metcalfe did a lot of work on timelines. They can be found on Blue Magi's Site:

Timeline of the Oslir Valley: www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/TimelineOslir.htm

Timeline of Dragon Pass: www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/TimelineDragonPass.htm

Timeline of the SeasTimeline of the Seas:www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/TimelineSeas.htm

Timeline of Fronela:www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/TimelineFronela.htm

Timeline of Prax, Dagori Inkarth and the Wastelands:www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/TimelinePrax.htm

Timeline of Seshela and Ralios:www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/TimelineSeshnelaRalios.htm

For some reason the Forum doesn't like the Urls. Perhaps it's the tilde.

Anyway, copy and paste the links and you'll find some very detailed timelines. I'm sure he has timeline of the Hero Wars as well but I can't find it. My Hero Wars Timeline is here.

The reason why there isn't one timeline for everywhere is that things keep being added to it when new areas are covered or old areas are covered in more detail.

The major events have been fixed for a long time but new things are still being added and some of them are fairly major events. The Battle of Night and Day, for instamce, is a massive Gloranthan event and has only recently been added to the history.

 

[richaje]

The major events have been fixed for a long time but new things are still being added and some of them are fairly major events. The Battle of Night and Day, for instamce, is a massive Gloranthan event and has only recently been added to the history.

If by recent you mean 11 years ago (when the Battle of Night and Day appeared in Enclosure), that's probably still wrong. If I recall it also appeared in an old issue of TotRM and was in Greg's Harmast Chronology going back a long time.

The bigger issue is that there are lots of events, persons, cults and gods in Greg's writings that haven't been published yet. Rick Meints has done a great job getting much more of the Stafford Library in print (at least two more this year), but the real prize will be when Greg's novels and short stories finally get published....

Jeff

 

[Osentalka]

Oh yes, Peters timelines are very useful.
Simons timeline is mostly about the future, and most entries are only based upon one source: King of Sartar, which is not historical correct on dates after 1640 or so.
Greg has repeadetly stated at conventions, that the real timeline is more dense. The Red Moon is coming down 1655, not 1725.

 

[Aninemity]

Thanks so much for the links. I'll have a look at them a bit later, I have to get ready to run a game shortly.

There are many people who would think, I'll do what I want with it - it's only a game. All well and good, but I just don't know/have never met anyone who plays in Glorantha that isn't somewhat obsessed with 'accuracy' which is bit of a daft concept in many ways, but seems to permeate Glorantha in a way that rivals, even outstrips, Middle Earth.

I have no problem with blagging some of the bits, but i figure if it's already there, why reinvent the wheel?

Thanks again fellas!

 

[JonGeere]

The question is whether we will see this work. After all the excellent Blood over Gold is not available in print with little sign of it coming into physical existence. :roll:

I hope that these works do come about as the readability of SL has improved, although I appreciate others like the deeply esoterical stuff.

I also appreciate the troubles faced by Rick, and wish him better luck than he (or for the matter the Mongoose) had with the printers.

The bigger issue is that there are lots of events, persons, cults and gods in Greg's writings that haven't been published yet. Rick Meints has done a great job getting much more of the Stafford Library in print (at least two more this year), but the real prize will be when Greg's novels and short stories finally get published....

Jeff

 

[Cleombrotus]

Personally I love the fact that the world is so well defined. It kind of enforces a certain discipline on you as a GM to be consistent and it's this that helps create the atmosphere of Gllorantha.

I'll be running a game for a new group in a month or so, and I get the impression that they have only played RQ fleetingly and then went back to D&D for years. I know that Glorantha sells itself as a roleplaying world. You just have to depict it in the same way that it's been depicted for years, and it generates its own level of enthusiasm.

Others will no doubt shout me down, but I feel that the VAST majority of campaign worlds, regardless of the volumes of hardback books that describe them, never feel much more than a token framework for adventure, in which the various factions/deities are simply there to provide a bit of flavour.

When running Glorantha, I have come across genuine curiousity, particularly about exploring the world. Go visit a point on a map in certain campaign worlds and you could be anywhere. The Guidebook can give pages about how important this spot is for world history, and it's still token. But, for one of many, many examples, Snakepipe Hollow just looks and sounds inviting - you see it on a map and you want to go there.

The thing about Glorantha, IMHO, is that players get excited about it and want to discover it for themselves. I don't know any other world in which the enthusiasm you feel for it as a GM translates across to the players to the same degree, and usually after a single session.

 

[soltakss]

The major events have been fixed for a long time but new things are still being added and some of them are fairly major events. The Battle of Night and Day, for instamce, is a massive Gloranthan event and has only recently been added to the history.

If by recent you mean 11 years ago (when the Battle of Night and Day appeared in Enclosure), that's probably still wrong. If I recall it also appeared in an old issue of TotRM and was in Greg's Harmast Chronology going back a long time.

Was it? I didn't know. Enclosure came out during my RPG Exile, so I hadn't read it until very recently. I can't remember seeing it in Tales, but it might have been mentioned. It certainly wasn't emphasised as being that important - the Gbaji/Trollkin Curse was always highlighted as the first really big battle, but nothing was really said about Nysalor/Gbaji vs the Orlanthi. Maybe I missed it.

The bigger issue is that there are lots of events, persons, cults and gods in Greg's writings that haven't been published yet. Rick Meints has done a great job getting much more of the Stafford Library in print (at least two more this year), but the real prize will be when Greg's novels and short stories finally get published....

Sure, there's a lot there waiting to be published. But, in one sense it doesn't exist until we see it.

Rick Meints has done a great job getting much more of the Stafford Library in print (at least two more this year)

Which two are they? Has anyone any idea when they'll come out? Ready for Convention Season, perhaps?

 

[richaje]

Was it? I didn't know. Enclosure came out during my RPG Exile, so I hadn't read it until very recently. I can't remember seeing it in Tales, but it might have been mentioned. It certainly wasn't emphasised as being that important - the Gbaji/Trollkin Curse was always highlighted as the first really big battle, but nothing was really said about Nysalor/Gbaji vs the Orlanthi. Maybe I missed it.

Part of the charm of writing Glorantha with Greg is that virtually everything Greg writes is from a Gloranthan perspective. In Trollpack, the trolls don't really care about the Nysalor/Gbaji vs the Orlanthi angle, and so Trollpack gives a very slanted perspective. Meanwhile, the Orlanthi perspective focuses on Lokamayadon vs the Heortlings, and the trolls are relegated to being strange darkness allies who get stomped. And the Dara Happans are negligible.

Sure, there's a lot there waiting to be published. But, in one sense it doesn't exist until we see it.

More precisely, doesn't exist for you until you've seen it. Others may have seen it already.

BTW, that's why these Cons should be great opportunities for folk to ask questions of Greg, Loz and myself about our take on Glorantha. Fill in some of your own timelines, or get us interested in writing about your pet issue.

Rick Meints has done a great job getting much more of the Stafford Library in print (at least two more this year)

Which two are they? Has anyone any idea when they'll come out? Ready for Convention Season, perhaps?

We're finishing up the Limited Edition hardcover version of the "Land of 10,000 Goddess" (the Esrolia book) for Tentacles. There will be a regular version by Continuum. We are doing "Cities of Dara Happa" for Continuum. Lots of Second and Third Age background in both.

And Greg and I are still working on the massive "Book of Orlanthi mythology". That will be a must have for anyone trying to understand Gloranthan religion and mythology - as well as a must-have for anyone trying to understand the Orlanthi.

Jeff

 

[JonGeere]

We're finishing up the Limited Edition hardcover version of the "Land of 10,000 Goddess" (the Esrolia book) for Tentacles. There will be a regular version by Continuum. We are doing "Cities of Dara Happa" for Continuum. Lots of Second and Third Age background in both.

And Greg and I are still working on the massive "Book of Orlanthi mythology". That will be a must have for anyone trying to understand Gloranthan religion and mythology - as well as a must-have for anyone trying to understand the Orlanthi.

Jeff

So will "Land of 10,000 Goddess" and "Cities of Dara Happa" be made available for those not going to a convention? Are long delay (ala BoG) to be expected.

Hopefully out soon!

Regards

Jon

 

[Sinisalo]

It's a game - you can do anything you like with it. As a RW example I feel if France hadn't fallen to the Nazis there may not have been the Battle of Britain but there would have been either the fight in North Africa or Russia. In Glorantha my players helped beat off the Crimson Bat from Whitewall thus holding it changing some of the timeline but not all of it - Yay no two year winter. Individual events aren't always lozenge shattering.

In my game the EWF may or may not succeed - what if your players come up with a way to bring the Empire back to right action and resolve its contradictions? Your players should have the freedom to change things and that goes for Elric and his armageddon too.

 

[richaje]

It's a game - you can do anything you like with it. As a RW example I feel if France hadn't fallen to the Nazis there may not have been the Battle of Britain but there would have been either the fight in North Africa or Russia. In Glorantha my players helped beat off the Crimson Bat from Whitewall thus holding it changing some of the timeline but not all of it - Yay no two year winter. Individual events aren't always lozenge shattering.

In my game the EWF may or may not succeed - what if your players come up with a way to bring the Empire back to right action and resolve its contradictions? Your players should have the freedom to change things and that goes for Elric and his armageddon too.

YGWV. And your campaign will vary. But Glorantha itself is based on Greg's stories, and those stories establish certain events, timelines, and so on. What you want to do with those events is up to you.

FWIW, the Bat is beaten off Whitewall in Greg's stories but Whitewall still falls two years later.

Jeff

 

[Sinisalo]

YGWV. And your campaign will vary. But Glorantha itself is based on Greg's stories, and those stories establish certain events, timelines, and so on. What you want to do with those events is up to you.

It's just a style thing. I think if you are playing in Glorantha anything goes - let your players affect history, they'll enjoy it. Obviously if you are writing for Glorantha (ie a fanzine) a fact is a fact though still seen in context. I remember that section from Gods of Glorantha where priests from several different cults answer questions each giving a different interpretation on the same events.

FWIW, the Bat is beaten off Whitewall in Greg's stories but Whitewall still falls two years later.

Jeff

Oh! I thought the defenders beat off the bat and abandoned whitewall, escaping elsewhere. I stand corrected.

 

[Voriof]

If by recent you mean 11 years ago (when the Battle of Night and Day appeared in Enclosure), that's probably still wrong. If I recall it also appeared in an old issue of TotRM and was in Greg's Harmast Chronology going

I was doing some research for a different project and noticed that the Battle of Night and Day also appears in the History of the Lunar Empire which was published in HEROES magazine during the days of RQ3. God, that must be over twenty years now. The article was reprinted several times over the years in TotRM and others - and is mentioned in "Crucible of the Hero Wars" in passing.

Jeff