New runes for the Iron Kingdoms

[Utgardloki]

I am at the point now where I am considering which runes are needed to run an Iron Kingdoms campaign. A few of the runes in the MRQ rulebook are not appropriate (e.g. Dragonnewt), although most of the official runes make the cut. The setting also calls out for runes not in the MRQ rulebook (such as Machinery and Gun). The set of new IK:RQ runes include the following:

Abjuration Rune Touched gains +20% to rolls to resist magic
Conjuration Rune Touched gains +20% to Sleight of Hand
Divination Rune Touched gains +20% to Perception
Dragonblight Rune Touched loses a number of points of Charisma equal to highest magnitude of Dragonblight spell known, imposes a -20% penalty to Resilience checks to resist spells cast by the Rune Touched
Eldritch Rune Touched may spend 1 magic point to increase number of damage points parried by 3, for each parry attempt
Electrical Rune Touched gains +30% to rolls to resist electrical damage, takes 1 point less damage than otherwise indicated from electrical attacks
Enchantment Rune Touched gains number of points of Charisma equal to highest magnitude Enchantment spell known
Evil Rune Touched gains +20% to Influence checks
Gun Rune Touched gains +10% bonus to Weapon (Gun)
Infernals Rune Touched gains a +30% bonus to skill checks involving infernals
Machinery Rune Touched gains a +20% bonus to Mechanisms checks
Transformation Rune Touched gains a +30% bonus to Perception checks to notice transformations or disguise
Virtue Rune Touched gains a +20% bonus to Persistence checks to resist Influence or mental control
Woman Rune Touched gains a +30% bonus to Influence checks targetting women and a +10% bonus to resist Influence attempts from women

I have not decided what runic powers to associate with each rune. I'm not even sure I want to use runic powers in this campaign. Instead I may make "cantrips" available with successful Runecasting checks, such as Flare for the Light rune, or Daze for the Enchantment rune. Soon I should have a few spells for each rune.

 

[weasel_fierce]

I really like these. And well, a Gun rune just makes me giddy

 

[Exubae]

Nice ideas dude, I can just about get my head around the machine rune, but I'm not sure about your Gun rune, does mean there is an catapult/blade Rune kicking about? Wouldn't the'Gun' Rune be a part of the Machine rune?
Gun Rune is a bit end product-ish rather than primal and runish...

 

[Deleriad]

Interesting ideas. With the caveat that I know very little about the setting, some of the runes seem a little odd.

"Woman" rune. The man rune in Glorantha is not gender specific - means roughly humanform. If you have a gender rune for woman does it apply, for example, to female walktapi? Now you could have gender runes (male, female, other etc) but you might need to think them through a little more. For example, you might decide that the setting needs some sort of ying/yang male/female principle which can be embodied in runes. (Wheel of Time springs to mind).

Wouldn't Gun be a part of machine? There's an argument that Glorantha lacks a "machine" rune (which would be owned, presumably) by Mostal. Perhaps machine or technology (IK has a bit of steampunk element as I understand it) would be a good rune which could underly some of your ideas. In fact it might be that "technology" is something of a philosophical rune like Magic, Infinity, Mastery and so on.

Enchantment: Isn't this really just Magic?

Transformation: This has routinely been considered part of Movement in RQ lore. You could have it as a derivation of movement (in the same way that light and heat, cold and darkness and so on are related). Perhaps, I'm guessing that the D&D style magic names being used as derivations of the magic rune. Maybe in IK the Magic Rune is somehow "broken" so only sub-elements are usable?

I must admit that having an "Evil" rune goes too far into weirdness for me. In RQ/Glorantha Law and Chaos are fundamental forces and "evil" is a label that is used to describe certain actions. There are no mad, mcmad, mad sorcerors who cackle evilly and then go home for a nice cup of evil mead. If you have a rune for evil then you're making a really strong claim about the deep structure of the world because you're saying that evil is something external to people and that evil comes from integrating the evil rune. Providing that's what you want, that's ok, but you do need to think about it. For example, say there's an evil rune and there's a woman doing bad things in the village then someone might think "I bet she integrated the evil rune so lets cut it out of her in order to cure her. OK she's dead but she'll at least go to a happy place."

I know I'm being quite critical here but that's because I find your ideas interesting and provocative.

BTW, on the other hand, I absolutely despise the legendary runes in Legendary Heroes (LH is, to me, a disaster of a book, the only in the MRQ line I actively dislike).

 

[Utgardloki]

The Gun Rune was devised to support the Gun Mage "class" that is available in the Iron Kingdoms. In IK, gun mages are special arcane casters who cast spells through their guns.

Some of these runes may be related to each other the way that the "Death" and "Undeath" runes would seem to be. So "Magic" would be sort of an overarching rune, and there could be runes that cover aspects of machinery. Rune can certainly be combined into "compound words".

The "Woman" rune is prompted by noting how this setting seems to treat women. For example, one of the "monster" types is a Tomb Maiden, which consists of the soul of a long-dead woman warrior trapped in an iron body. Why a woman warrior? Why not just a warrior? Could the "Metal Woman" concept be integral to this type of being? That would almost certainly be considered absurd in many settings, but in the Iron Kingdoms, it seems to make sense.

There are also only three goddesses in the Iron Kingdoms, and none of them would be openly worshipped in the civilized areas. The relationship between the goddess Thamar and the god Morrow in particular is intruiging. And in converting IK to Runequest, the fact that they have a goddess of machinery instead of a god of machinery struck my notice.

I do have lots of ideas regarding the Woman rune. It would apply to nonhumans, or at least those that had enough of a family organization to have male/female roles. There would probably be different "inflections" for different races. Female walktapi would be covered (although there are no walktapi in the Iron Kingdoms).

I thought about including a "Male Aspect" rune. For Iron Kingdoms, I decided to leave things assymmetric for now, but other settings could certainly benefit from a Yin/Yang duality.

I left runes pertaining to nonhumans off the list. There would probably be elf runes and dwarf runes, but assuming the PCs would all be humans, they would not have easy access to those.

I'm thinking that I should add a "Steam" rune to the list. The steam concept is such a part and parcel to the "Steampunk" genre that it seems such a rune would certainly be apropos. Characters with that rune could possibly ignore damage from heat, as the Electrical rune protects from electrical damage.

The Enchantment rune is related to the D&D school of enchantment. Perhaps because Iron Kingdoms started out as a D&D setting, concepts of alignment and D&D schools of magic became part of the setting. The "Big Four" runes of Iron Kingdoms would almost certainly be Enchantment, Infernals, Necromancy, and Machinery. I am equating "necromancy" with the Death rune, and "evocation" with the Eldritch rune.

As for alignment, I've provoked some debate on the Privateer Press forum about whether alignment is integral to Iron Kingdoms or an add-on due to the D&D rules, but my opinion is the former, that Evil and Virtue are real forces.

As for the evil rune, people cutting apart witches to remove runes would fit into the setting, except that anybody in the know would know that is not typically possible. (It might be a possibility for the Orgoth, but by the canon, the Orgoth haven't been around for 400 years.)

My thought is that Iron Kingdoms has a more complicated alignment structure than Glorantha, or even than World of Greyhawk. There is a law/chaos dichotomy (represented by the struggle between Menoth and Orboros, for example), and also a virtue/evil dichotomy (Menoth vs Thamar). There is also a third dichotomy between nature and machine (Cyriss vs Orboros).

Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming.

 

[Utgardloki]

I have not seen Legendary Adventures, so I don't know what the Legendary Runes are like. I had meant to mention that in Iron Kingdoms, I reserved a few runes as "advanced runes" which simply means that PCs don't get them as part of "The Gift", but must acquire them from someone who already has one. Not particularly "legendary", but to get one of these runes, a PC must already have at least one other rune, and be taught how to use the new rune by someone who has already mastered it:

Music Rune Touched gains +30% to Performance skill checks
Travel Rune Touched gains 1 yard to base speed

The Music rune is the exclusive property of the Warbards.

The Travel rune is a very rare rune that is a little dangerous in the Iron Kingdoms because careless use of it may attract attention from the infernals. The Travel rune is necessary for teleportation spells. For Iron Kingdoms, teleportation spells are restricted. Apparently, the publishers of that setting don't want Elminster-syle wizards popping in and out all over the place.

 

[soltakss]

In the Standard Runic Scheme, Form Runes are opposed.

So, if you had an Evil Rune, you would also need a Good Rune. If evil is a malign force, then good would be a benign one.

Similarly, you would need a Man Rune to be Masculine opposed to the Woman Rune, and probably distinct from the standard Man Rune, denoting people or humans, which could be a Human Rune, if you neded one.

Runes are very setting-specific, so don't get too bothered that your runes are different to the Glornathan ones - just use you rown runes and ignore the standard ones.

 

[simonh]

The Gun Rune was devised to support the Gun Mage "class" that is available in the Iron Kingdoms. In IK, gun mages are special arcane casters who cast spells through their guns.

So they master both Machine and Death. In general I'd avoid runes that are pretty clearly combinations of other runes. The whole idea of runes is that they are fundamental, indivisible principles.

The "Woman" rune is prompted by noting how this setting seems to treat women. For example, one of the "monster" types is a Tomb Maiden,

This sounds to me to be a cultural thing, not necessarily a fundamental fact of nature. Perhaps there was a cult or secret society of women with this particular kind of magic.

There are also only three goddesses in the Iron Kingdoms, and none of them would be openly worshipped in the civilized areas.

Let me guess, the setting was written by a bloke? Undead iron women. Female primal powers are largely unknown and unapproachable. I'd say this guy has issues!

I thought about including a "Male Aspect" rune. For Iron Kingdoms, I decided to leave things assymmetric for now, but other settings could certainly benefit from a Yin/Yang duality.

I was surprised by your characterization of the Female gender rune, which seems to be a kind of 'chat up' rune, rather than being anything to do with actual gender. I'd have expected something fertility or nurturing related.

I left runes pertaining to nonhumans off the list. There would probably be elf runes and dwarf runes, but assuming the PCs would all be humans, they would not have easy access to those.

In Glorantha, they are Man rune modified by another rune such as Stasis and Man for Dwarfs. In a Tolkien-derived world, Elfs might be Nature/Man or Magic/Man. This is because in Glorantha Man is overtly and un-self-consciously presented as the measure of all things. In a setting without that subtext, you might reasonably go in a different direction.

 

[soltakss]

I left runes pertaining to nonhumans off the list. There would probably be elf runes and dwarf runes, but assuming the PCs would all be humans, they would not have easy access to those.

In Glorantha, they are Man rune modified by another rune such as Stasis and Man for Dwarfs. In a Tolkien-derived world, Elfs might be Nature/Man or Magic/Man. This is because in Glorantha Man is overtly and un-self-consciously presented as the measure of all things. In a setting without that subtext, you might reasonably go in a different direction.

Yes, so in Glorantha you have:

Mistress Race Trolls: Dark/Dark/Man
Dark Trolls: Dark/Man/Man
Elves: PLant/Man/Man
Runners: Plant/Movement/Man
Dryads: Plant/Plant/Man
Intelligent Trees: Plant/Plant/Plant
Dwarves: Stasis/Stasis/Man
True Mostali: Stasis/Stasis/Stasis
Humans: Man/Man/Man
Ogres: Chaos/Man/Man
Waertagi: Water/Man/Man
Agimori: Pamalt/Man/Man
Kralori: Dragon/Man/Man
Centaurs: Beast/Beast/Man
Minotaurs: Beast/Man/Man
Ducks: Beast/Man/Man
Broos: Chaos/Beast/Man
Wind Children: Storm/Storm/Man

In other worlds you might have:
Orcs: Dark/Man/Man
Goblins: Dark/Earth/Man
Giants: Stone/Stasis/Man
Kobolds: Earth/Earth/Man

and so on.

 

[Utgardloki]

Let me guess, the setting was written by a bloke? Undead iron women. Female primal powers are largely unknown and unapproachable. I'd say this guy has issues!

I should probably apply a penalty for men trying to pick up the Woman rune if they are not granted it as a gift from Thamar.

I thought about including a "Male Aspect" rune. For Iron Kingdoms, I decided to leave things assymmetric for now, but other settings could certainly benefit from a Yin/Yang duality.

I was surprised by your characterization of the Female gender rune, which seems to be a kind of 'chat up' rune, rather than being anything to do with actual gender. I'd have expected something fertility or nurturing related.

Actually, I put the bonus to Influence as a runic power as an afterthought. I don't think I will even use runic powers in my Iron Kingdoms game; something about these just does not seem to fit. The Influence bonus is related to being able to understand women moreso than others, whether or not the rune touched is or is not a woman. Although perhaps I should make it a +10% Influence bonus to anyone, as a reflection of improved empathy.

Really, I was thinking in terms of Mother/Sister/Daughter/Lover archetypes, but that will have to wait until I get a chance to define what this rune can actually do. My idea is that the rune can be turned in at least four directions, making it four runes in one. Fertility, nurturing, seduction, family, and more would all be included. Spells could include "Mother's Protection" and "Aura of Chastity". Since very few men would master this rune, it could hardly be considered a 'chat up' rune, although I admit that just looking at the list of runic powers might give that impression.

If there is a better idea for a runic power, I can change it.

As for why there is this assymetry, in the Iron Kingdoms setting, sorcery is a gift from the goddess Thamar, who definitely has her own agenda. (Although I'm not entirely clear what exactly that is.) My thought is that there is indeed a "Male Principle" rune (not sure what to call it), and the Elves have it, but they are not sharing, and Thamar withheld it when she granted humans The Gift.

Iron Kingdoms also seems to be based more on Judeo-Christian principles than Glorantha is. If they have a myth similar to the story of Adam and Eve, it makes sense that they'd see the Man rune as the natural expression of men, with Woman being something drawn out of Man. They might not have a clue that there is another side to this picture.

I left runes pertaining to nonhumans off the list. There would probably be elf runes and dwarf runes, but assuming the PCs would all be humans, they would not have easy access to those.

In Glorantha, they are Man rune modified by another rune such as Stasis and Man for Dwarfs. In a Tolkien-derived world, Elfs might be Nature/Man or Magic/Man. This is because in Glorantha Man is overtly and un-self-consciously presented as the measure of all things. In a setting without that subtext, you might reasonably go in a different direction.

I think in Iron Kingdoms, each race would have their own rune, except where two races are so similar that they can share a rune (such as Gobbers and Bogrin). The idea of combining runes can certainly work for defining subraces, such as "Evil Gobber" for Bogrin, "Cold Elf" for Nyss, or "Darkness Ogrun" for Black Ogrun.

Also, different races may have runes that coud apply to humans, but humans do not know about. The nature of the setting is such that a human is not likely to learn a rune from an elf or a dwarf. The "maleness principle" rune is one example of this. Dwarves may have a Family rune that applies to both sexes. Gobbers might have a Larceny rune. Ogrun do not have sorcery, so probably don't have any runes of their own.

Another rune for the setting, this one only available to priests of Menoth (who are human): City Rune Touched gain a 20% bonus to weapon use rolls when within a city and not using a weapon made entirely out of wood or unworked stone.

 

[Exubae]

A couple of oyther runes have rered their heads in the past:
The Void rune (Quest world and (DR)Drastic Resolutions)

I must admit that having an "Evil" rune goes too far into weirdness for me.

One cropped in RQ fan-dom;
The following made an appearance in DR as an aspect of Chaos.
'Evil' Rune (a V with a horizontal bar through center)
'Hunger' Rune (now the undead rune)
'undead' rune (a darkness rune with a quarter missing from top.)
'Tap' Rune (An x on a stick)
'Seduction' Rune (Moon rune at Half full)

RQ2
Ice rune (a Black diamond)

RQ3
Power rune (an up right arrow... the power of relationships?)

In Issaries publications -
'Unequal' exchange/aka theft (which kind of opposes the trade rune)
Numerous others.. but they are less distinct

 

[Utgardloki]

In the Standard Runic Scheme, Form Runes are opposed.

So, if you had an Evil Rune, you would also need a Good Rune. If evil is a malign force, then good would be a benign one.

Actually, I had intended the Virtue rune to be the opposition to the Evil rune. Perhaps I should call the Evil rune "Malevolence".

OTOH, for similar reasons that the goddess of magic may have withheld the "Male Principle" rune, she may also have withheld the Virtue rune. That would explain a lot about the Iron Kingdoms.

 

[Deleriad]

I suppose an obvious question is: do runes make any sort of sense in Iron Kingdoms? With the proviso that I haven't read Cults 2, it would seem to me that Shamanic, Divine and Sorcerous magic would cover all the bases.

The problem with runes is that you essentially have to structure the world around them. For example, I doubt you would insist on runes in Lankhmar, Middle Earth and so on so why import them into Iron Kingdoms? Not saying you can't but I would think you would need a very good reason for importing runes. You would have to revisit pretty much the entire mythology of the setting and retcon it into having runes.

 

[Utgardloki]

It's true, I have to make some changes to bring runes into the Iron Kingdoms. But for some reason, I look at the Iron Kingdoms, and think, they just naturally fit.

My argument is that in the Iron Kingdoms, they make a big deal about Necromancy, and slightly littler deals about Enchantment and Conjuration. The concept of having separate runes for all these seems to fit the concept just a little bit better than the D&D concept of school specialization.

I've made a few changes on the Runequest rules side of things too: Arcane spellcasters can (and usually do) make their own runes, instead of having to find one or mug some poor trollkin shaman. Acquiring runes is no problem at all: the problem is that unless you've been born with an innate instinct for a particular rune (which happens), you have to learn how to use a rune from someone who's already mastered it.

I've made substantial changes to the Runequest companion's rules on divine magic, and am not using their "sorcery" rules for Iron Kingdoms at all. "Sorcerers," "Wizards," "Bards," "Arcane Mechaniks," and "Gun Mages" all use runecasting. "Priests," "Shamans" and "Druids" all use divine magic. "Paladins" and others use a system I'm developing based on what I call "virtue skills".

I've come up with another rune: Enigma Rune Touched gain a 20% bonus on opposed skill checks where their opponent is using Perception or a skill that involves a function like Perception.

I'll be travelling soon, so it may be a while before I match up spells for all these runes. I hope to get a few done this evening before I go to bed.

 

[nahualt]

hmm I am starting with a conversion for Iron Kingdoms, But I was planing to go the opposite way. Remove all runes and just go with the Petty Magick supplement aproach to magic. In petty magic they divide magic more less under schools ( to sum it up).

Your rune aproach is interesting.

What else have you done? what about the races?

 

[kintire]

If I was doing Iron Kingdoms with RQ (an excellent idea which I may well stea... creatively readapt) I would use Sorcery for the Wizardry and Shamanism for Witchcraft. I'm not convinced Runes fit. With that caveat, I like the ideas you've produced, though I think you may want a bit more organisation. Currently they seem a bit of a hotchpotch. Just as an example, you might divide the runes into primal, major and minor. So, you might get:

Primal Rune: Change.

Then under that

Major runes: Enchantment, Infernals, Necromancy, Machinery

Then under each would have the minor runes, eg Abjuration under Enchantment, Gun, under machinery and so on.

That's just an example, of course, but it provides a bit of structure.

Let me guess, the setting was written by a bloke? Undead iron women. Female primal powers are largely unknown and unapproachable. I'd say this guy has issues!

Its not quite that bad. Menoth created humans and his church is very sexist, but this is portrayed as a bad thing and most humans have abandoned his worship for Morrow and his Ascended. These Ascended are effectively minor gods, and a good selection of them are female. The Ascended of war and holy warriors, Katrina, for example. There aren't any female primal powers, but there aren't really any male ones either. The primal powers are Menoth and Orboros and they don't really seem to have gender as such, although Menoth is spoken of in male terms. Thamar and Morrow are apotheosised mortals, and who knows what Cyriss is?

 

[Utgardloki]

I think this fall I'll start putting stuff in the Wiki. I think I've gotten some good feedback and should be able to add some interesting stuff.

One cool thing about Iron Kingdoms, is that everybody can have their own interpretation. There are no "Iron Kingdom Nazis" to try to make sure that everybody conforms to their own opinion.

I've decided that what I think is the best fit is to have runecasting for most arcane casters. Witches are those who are not integrated into the wizard guilds. Bards and Gun Mages are those who are integrated with special runes (Music and Gun respectively).

The reason why the runes fit so easily is that the flavor text for Iron Kingdoms is full of references to runes, even though there are no game mechanics to use these in D&D.

As for primal female powers, there is the goddess Dhunia, who is not well-known to humans, but widely worshipped by the humanoid races. She seems to me like kind of a "woman in a refrigerator" (you can look that up on Wikipedia), but I can imagine that Cyriss may be an aspect that was pulled from her way back in ancient times and is seeking to understand herself. Thus, you'd have two primal male powers: Menoth and the Devourer, two primal female powers: Dhunia nad Cyriss. Interesting that in both pairs you have one that represents primitive conditions and one that represents civilization and technology.

I think for Iron Kingdoms it seems appropriate to have the runes a little bit disorganized, which reflects lack of understanding among Iron Kingdom residents. Perhaps there are a few who realize how different runes are interconnected, and what look like different runes are really aspects of the same rune.

 

[kintire]

oh yes, I forgot about Dhunia. oops.

I think for Iron Kingdoms it seems appropriate to have the runes a little bit disorganized, which reflects lack of understanding among Iron Kingdom residents.

When writing a setting, you have two things to consider. How the world works, and how the inhabitants think it works. These are not always, or even usually, the same. A lack of understanding amoung Iron Kingdoms residents is very likely, and may lead to a lack of organisation of runes by them. This will have no effect on how the world actually works though, and as GM its useful to have at least an idea of that.