New Jump Point Bomb rules
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Well the main problem is that the AJP bombn on screen is done by an elite crew, and under VERY special circumstances. We see it as often as the bonehead maneuver.
And yes on screen it is far more deadly, but then again they had to lure the enemy into an exact position, that had been predetermined.
And well when you play Minbari, you can get multiple AJPs and mostly you only need one ship to get a good position the rest can use the AJP bomb for free. Next turn you get the added bonus of CAF ships...
Taking Hull4 versus a fleet with even just a little AJP is just hurting yourself too much.
And yes on screen it is far more deadly, but then again they had to lure the enemy into an exact position, that had been predetermined.
And well when you play Minbari, you can get multiple AJPs and mostly you only need one ship to get a good position the rest can use the AJP bomb for free. Next turn you get the added bonus of CAF ships...
Taking Hull4 versus a fleet with even just a little AJP is just hurting yourself too much.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
We've banned it locally in all functions. The concept of having artillery strikes in this space combat game is ludicrous. Whether it happens onscreen or not is irrelevant; the balance is so out of whack that it's pointless. Worst rule out there. Just ban it, and watch the game play instantly better.
Seems to have been what many groups have done.
And it's not just hull 4! On the contrary, it hurts Hull 6 much more, as SAP minimizes the value of the high hull scores. Two well-placed AJP bombs kill a Chronos (you should get 1 crit on 6 hits, and that'll do it) --- how is that balanced? Two Torothas later ... bang? Before I've even exposed the Torotha to any fire wahtsoever?
And the argument asking why a fleet of jump drives never just out-of-hand blew up Babylon 5 is well-placed! This rule is ....
Busted!
The Torotha may be bad, but leaving it as is with AJP is most certainly NOT the answer. A ship whose value is in cheese is not a viable ship. Its an argument and a bad time misleadingly packaged as a game.
Seems to have been what many groups have done.
And it's not just hull 4! On the contrary, it hurts Hull 6 much more, as SAP minimizes the value of the high hull scores. Two well-placed AJP bombs kill a Chronos (you should get 1 crit on 6 hits, and that'll do it) --- how is that balanced? Two Torothas later ... bang? Before I've even exposed the Torotha to any fire wahtsoever?
And the argument asking why a fleet of jump drives never just out-of-hand blew up Babylon 5 is well-placed! This rule is ....
Busted!
The Torotha may be bad, but leaving it as is with AJP is most certainly NOT the answer. A ship whose value is in cheese is not a viable ship. Its an argument and a bad time misleadingly packaged as a game.
JP bomb doesn't have SAP. Just 6AD triple damage.CZuschlag said:
Most people who complain about the rule, have never actually used it... (not saying that you haven't CZ because I don't know, but most people). I thought it was hideous, until I tried using it, and had it used on me a few times. It's overrated. A nasty hit, but only every 4 turns, and keeps enemy ships off the board.
I definitely think that moving through a jump point onto/near another target (I.E. a Jump Point Bomb) should require a relatively high CQ roll. Additionally, I wonder if there should be a chance of damage tot he ship doing it, even a minor one?
Basically, make it a variant of the already-existing ramming rules. Lose the Crippled requirement, but add a higher CQ check .
The ship in In the Beginning (The Black Star, right?) obviously had an elite crew.
Basically, make it a variant of the already-existing ramming rules. Lose the Crippled requirement, but add a higher CQ check .
The ship in In the Beginning (The Black Star, right?) obviously had an elite crew.
I think JP bombing pointless really. It puts your ship in a poor position, it does minimal damage, unless you are lucky as hell, and means you end up with a split fleet.
I don't see it as the most viable tactic, but it is a tactic non the less, The Drakh and the Minbari are advanced enough to pinpoint a jump the Later EA and other ships have ISA or Drakh aid. I have never seen it destroy or severely hamper a ship, it's an overated and misunderstood tactic.
I don't see it as the most viable tactic, but it is a tactic non the less, The Drakh and the Minbari are advanced enough to pinpoint a jump the Later EA and other ships have ISA or Drakh aid. I have never seen it destroy or severely hamper a ship, it's an overated and misunderstood tactic.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Well its also possible that the blast from a station going up like that might easily kill anything that jumped in on top of it....
Also its possible that the stations gravity (its is rather large and heavy and also in low orbit of a large planet....) could intefere with jump points if you try to jump in THAT close. Remember the only ships we EVER see jump in that close to a large gravity field are whitestars (and theyre part Vorlon) (other ships have jumped in NEAR B5 but not right on it.
As to the tactic itself, and this has been discussed to death in the past:
One, its not AP at all, its 6 dice needing the basic hull score to hit at all. Hull 6 ships on average will take 3 points of damage, 6 if your lucky.
However if you want to tone it down a bit I suggest you impose this rule isntead; Ships that open a jump point into realspace can hold it open for other ships up to three turns still but must jump in at the end of that, they cant simply sit in hyperspace and JP bomb every three turns, that, whilst not actually very effective is just bloody cheap and a lame boring way to play.
Its the equivalent of building a Wood Elf army that has nothing but mages and Archers in it and sitting on the base line and firing 400 arrows a turn....
Also its possible that the stations gravity (its is rather large and heavy and also in low orbit of a large planet....) could intefere with jump points if you try to jump in THAT close. Remember the only ships we EVER see jump in that close to a large gravity field are whitestars (and theyre part Vorlon) (other ships have jumped in NEAR B5 but not right on it.
As to the tactic itself, and this has been discussed to death in the past:
One, its not AP at all, its 6 dice needing the basic hull score to hit at all. Hull 6 ships on average will take 3 points of damage, 6 if your lucky.
However if you want to tone it down a bit I suggest you impose this rule isntead; Ships that open a jump point into realspace can hold it open for other ships up to three turns still but must jump in at the end of that, they cant simply sit in hyperspace and JP bomb every three turns, that, whilst not actually very effective is just bloody cheap and a lame boring way to play.
Its the equivalent of building a Wood Elf army that has nothing but mages and Archers in it and sitting on the base line and firing 400 arrows a turn....
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Holding a ship in hyperspace to AJP bomb isn't very effective. How many ships can do more than 6Ad every fourth turn? Answer: every single one.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
however.... how many ships can do that 6AD anywhere on the table and with completel imunity to return fire:
None.
Now personally Id say its still much more sensible tactically to actually jump in and open fire, fine hit them with the jump point on the way in but staying in hyperspace is just lame and dull.
None.
Now personally Id say its still much more sensible tactically to actually jump in and open fire, fine hit them with the jump point on the way in but staying in hyperspace is just lame and dull.
The tactic of only staying in hyperspace is mostly stupid. Even a Torotha can do more damage by jumping in.
The problem is not using a single AJP to bomb something, cause youll be in a bad position as well.
But rather the fun of having multiple ships in hyperspace with AJP. You only need a single AJP for good and tactical intelligent placing of your ambushers. The rest of the AJPs can go to bombing Hull4 ships. Mixed JP and AJPs are even worse, cause in many cases the JP can be used for placement, cause even with a little deviation you will end up in a sweet spot. And then you use the free AJP bomb.
The problem is not using a single AJP to bomb something, cause youll be in a bad position as well.
But rather the fun of having multiple ships in hyperspace with AJP. You only need a single AJP for good and tactical intelligent placing of your ambushers. The rest of the AJPs can go to bombing Hull4 ships. Mixed JP and AJPs are even worse, cause in many cases the JP can be used for placement, cause even with a little deviation you will end up in a sweet spot. And then you use the free AJP bomb.
Leaving a torotha in hypspace for 5 turns to hit with a 2nd JPB is a serious tactical mistake for several reasons. First i have never seen a Raid 5 game with minbari go more than 4 turns except against vorlons. B: You open the AJP behind or to the side of a ship/'s that have already moved 6ad TD, then jump in close and blast with both forward torotha guns 4ad, AP/DD, 4ad AP/MB and just deal with the reprocusions. And 4th having more ships on the table when they run away screaming nets you more VP =)
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Locutus9956 said:
2 million 5 hundred thousand tons is not that much gravitationally (about 4*10^-16 Earth masses) speaking, and we see Minbari jump in fairly close to B5 ("right on top of us") when Delenn brings in a taskforce to save B5 from Clark.
LBH
