My say on T5

[Dracous]

My final comment on T5.

I don't own a copy, I was never part of the beta, or the Kickstarter, all my information I have gleaned from online reviews.

I referee two different groups, of which only my wife and I are in both groups. This comes to a total of eight players. One of these groups has been with me since classic Traveller, and they have taken part in MegaTrav (which they loved), New Era (which they hated, except my wife, she loved it), T4 (Which they did not like the dice mechanic), T20 (Where they got sick of me changing systems, and had issues with the levelling, balance, etc), and finally MgT (Where they are pleased that it seems close to Classic Trav).

I own a copy of GURPS Trav as well. However, never played it, as I could not;

• a. Subject my poor players to another rules system
  b. Could not get imperial measurements... I grew up in a metric system.

This group found the character creation in Mongoose a confusing and hard to use. Just saying.

OK, so to the point. Judging from what I have read here, on COTI, and on the TML, there is frankly, no way that I am going to ask these people to pick up T5. I think I would face open revolt (pretty close to what I got with TNE, which I persisted with far too long).

Some factors that have gone into my decision;

• 
  1. My players don't really like a roll under system. Double sixes make their eyes light up. So I would not be using the task system. I find that games are generally built around the task system (especially combat), so that I expect would cut great swathes out of the book for me.
  
  2. The various "maker" systems and QREBS. Nice idea, however, I suspect that the "things" made will be tied into the task system (how could they not?). So I would have to do my own customization. If I am planning to customize before I purchase, that is a red flag for "value for money". Also, I don't need it. MgT's Central Supply Catalogue already has a QREBS equivalent and item construction equivalent. I use that a lot for building gear and weapons.
  
  3. Errata - I am having enough issues with the MgT errata. Some of the errata I have seen for T5 looks very annoying. I have to say made all the more annoying by the knowledge that this product had the longest play test for almost any RPG I have ever heard of, and there are still, what I would regard as fundamental errors in character creation, vehicle design, etc. Despite the incredibly long development cycle, the production of this book was still a rushed job. I can't tell you how much that annoys me.
  
  4. Even the positive reviews that I have read have indicated that using this product is a lot of work. I already put in a lot of work for my custom campaigns. I don't need to do any more. I do not have the time.
  
  5. I like officially supported systems. This project is not officially supported. It is a hobby project, run from Marc's study. New products will be slow arriving, second editions may never be produced. Somebody is going to make the "But it's only early days!" comment. My rather blunt reply to that is that it shouldn't be "early days", it has been too long for "early days" to be a factor.
  
  6. There does not appear to be anything that has been given in a review that has made me think "Cool!". A mention of three different types of jump drives have tickled my fancy. That was not enough to get me to lay down cash.

OK, final comment. This book is someone’s view of the ultimate Traveller game. Some people share that view. I do not share that view. Please do not let my view detract from your enjoyment of the game.
I will not be purchasing this product. I will be giving negative recommendation to my fellow players, based on the all the reviews, both positive and negative, that I have read (and video's I have watched).

Sorry T5 fans. This is not "The Ultimate Traveller", this is "Just another Traveller".

 

[rust]

These are pretty much my own thoughts and feelings concerning
Traveller 5, too - perhaps a nice game for someone else, but cer-
tainly not for me, and nothing I could recommend to anyone ex-
cept my enemies (if I had any, that is).

 

[Old timer]

I have to agree with the above posters, to me T5 seems like my nightmare of a system, and all the reviews i have read just re-enforce this view, which may not be fair, but is just my view. Sorry T5 fans and Marc Miller, this just is not for me or my players.

 

[2330ADUSA1]

Hey I have a copy of T5 en-route to me, awaiting it in my mail box. I view it as I view each and every product as a resource only, as I have created my own In-House system that I have used for the past 25+ years. So that being said, I bought it and maybe it might have some element that might just find it's way into my own set of rules.

 

[phavoc]

Here-Here! Dracous!

I agree whole-heartedly with your views. Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I have created my own In-House system that I have used for the past 25+ years.

What is your most important house rule in your system, the rule that gets used the most often?

 

[2330ADUSA1]

I use a d100 % system for skills, basically a player has a range in a skill based off of two stats added together and then for each level of a skill they get (1 lvl = +5% added to the total). So if ther range is this example:

INT: 10
EDU: 10

Sci skill (Robotics): level 3

Example: 10 + 10 + 15 = 35%

So the player has a 1-35% base chance on a d100 to succeed in a task role. Modifiers do also apply like Simple (+15%), Normal (0), Hard (-15), Advanced (-25%) ...there can be other mods as well too, like TL +/- per level of the players TL to the TL in question. For each level of TL +/1 that the players they get either +5/-5% depending on the situation. Also there are other Mods as well too, like Special Training Schools that give special bonus mods to base rolls as well.

If a player rolls within their range on a d100, then they succeed at the task, if they roll over or outside of ther range then they failed. I give the player a 2nd roll, and if they failed and manage to make a roll within their range they know they failed and most likely why. If they failed that roll d100 as well then they have no idea they failed or why. The 2nd role helps to guide the player how to roleplay the situation better. The system runs real fast and is easy to manage and play for GM/DM and players alike.

 

[F33D]

So the player has a 1-35% base chance on a d100 to succeed in a task role. Modifiers do also apply like Simple (+15%),...

So, in your example, a Doctorate level person would have ~50% chance to accomplish a Simple task in their field???

 

[Fersboo]

So the player has a 1-35% base chance on a d100 to succeed in a task role. Modifiers do also apply like Simple (+15%),...

So, in your example, a Doctorate level person would have ~50% chance to accomplish a Simple task in their field???

50% makes sense if they were trying to do it in a hurry. Smart people make mistakes all the time.

 

[GamingGlen]

Runequest is my favorite RPG system and I have thought about using it for Traveller for the character information and task/skill checks.

Personally, my first thought would be to give +10% per Traveller skill level; but I could see giving +15% per skill level. +6 in Traveller levels is a VERY skilled professional, and giving him a +90% is not really out of line. This is the kind of professional that gets paid big bucks and travels around the world to do special and difficult assignments, and those assignments are probably VERY difficult to do, else they'd get someone more local/less expensive.

For example, one of the best neurosurgeons, with an INT of 18, EDU of 21, and +6 skill would have 18+21+90 = 129%. I suspect that neurosurgery probably has a base -40% chance for success, so his net skill is 89% and could be lower if it is a more difficult situation (i.e., extra large brain tumor, large invasive object or it is deep into the brain) and then add in some modifiers for the equipment and capabilities of the support staff. If I had the money I wouldn't want someone with a paltry 60% skill to operate inside my head. :wink:

 

[Lemnoc]

Runequest is my favorite RPG system and I have thought about using it for Traveller for the character information and task/skill checks.

Agreed about issues of task handling.

I like MgT because it best mimics CT, which is a kludgy, nutty old school RPG mechanic. So when you play it, it feels like you’re playing Traveller.

What I like best about Traveller is its central organizing ethos that if something is possible and there’s time to do it, you don’t have to roll to see if it succeeds. Not trying to mimic the “feel” of Traveller, I’d opt for the superior D100 family—but OQ rather than RQ,* because OQ honors the non-fiddly, storytelling ethos of CT.

* I guess I should leap to add I freaking love RQ.

 

[F33D]

50% makes sense if they were trying to do it in a hurry. Smart people make mistakes all the time.

That would be an additional mod per his write up. So, would be LESS than a 50% if hurried...

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I use a d100 % system for skills, basically a player has a range in a skill based off of two stats added together and then for each level of a skill they get (1 lvl = +5% added to the total). So if ther range is this example:

INT: 10
EDU: 10

Sci skill (Robotics): level 3

Example: 10 + 10 + 15 = 35%

So the player has a 1-35% base chance on a d100 to succeed in a task role. Modifiers do also apply like Simple (+15%), Normal (0), Hard (-15), Advanced (-25%) ...there can be other mods as well too, like TL +/- per level of the players TL to the TL in question. For each level of TL +/1 that the players they get either +5/-5% depending on the situation. Also there are other Mods as well too, like Special Training Schools that give special bonus mods to base rolls as well.

If a player rolls within their range on a d100, then they succeed at the task, if they roll over or outside of ther range then they failed. I give the player a 2nd roll, and if they failed and manage to make a roll within their range they know they failed and most likely why. If they failed that roll d100 as well then they have no idea they failed or why. The 2nd role helps to guide the player how to roleplay the situation better. The system runs real fast and is easy to manage and play for GM/DM and players alike.

I was hoping your house-rule simplified a current Traveller rule and made task resolving in less time so play is not interrupted. D100 (a whole other problem to bell curving) is a linear D20 on steriods and you're rolling twice for a task. Too much "mafs" involved. But you've been doing this for 25 years you say.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

So the player has a 1-35% base chance on a d100 to succeed in a task role. Modifiers do also apply like Simple (+15%),...

So, in your example, a Doctorate level person would have ~50% chance to accomplish a Simple task in their field???

50% makes sense if they were trying to do it in a hurry. Smart people make mistakes all the time.

I'm still thinking about this last statement here.

 

[Captain Jonah]

This seems very odd to me.

If you have the skill and training to do something that is simple or routine your chance of doing it should be 100%. That chance is then modified down by lack of time, adverse conditions etc and modified up by plenty of time, extra skill, good tools, help etc.

Having a situation where a level of 5 in a skill allows you a "Simple" task chance of 50% is a bit bizarre.

“Ok Ref I am going to use my Mechanic 5 to change the flat tire.”

“Fair enough player, that’s a simple task, 5 minutes and you have a 50% chance, oh and its starting to rain and the car is on a slight slope so that’s -10%. Roll your dice and see if you get 40 or below.”

Should this not be "it’s a simple task so that’s 100% but conditions add -10%, do you want to try and do it faster in which case take another -15% per minute less or take a minute longer and make it automatic?"

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Should this not be "it’s a simple task so that’s 100% but conditions add -10%, do you want to try and do it faster in which case take another -15% per minute less or take a minute longer and make it automatic?"

It's a house rule. Don't try to make sense out of it.

 

[2330ADUSA1]

So the player has a 1-35% base chance on a d100 to succeed in a task role. Modifiers do also apply like Simple (+15%),...

So, in your example, a Doctorate level person would have ~50% chance to accomplish a Simple task in their field???

50% makes sense if they were trying to do it in a hurry. Smart people make mistakes all the time.

Well a person that has a Doctorate level would have higher than a Level 3 skill.

Here is how I view what skill levels relate to:

Level 0 - player has some idea what or how it works and can make a guess based off their INT stat score as a % role on a simple task.

Level 1-2 - player has been trained and even some practical knowledge in the skill, but mostly has basic understanding and is a biginner in his skill and ability in such skill.

Level 3-4 - player is capable of doing the job of the task on their own in most cases. Still not the best, but they can work alone and accomplish most tasks asked of them or needed. They are not as fast as others, but they still can do the job.

Level 5-6 - Skilled player in the field and quite fast at doing most things, they might even be able to find many good work arrounds and or improve on certain matters and etc

Level 7-8 - Highly skilled in the field and able to tackle any task as needed and are amazing, this would be someone that might be a Doctorate level player works in Alpha and Beta testing research work within the field

Level 9-10 - Leader in the field and does R&D within the field.

So using my example with a character with a Doctorate Level -8 in Robotics:

INT: 10
EDU: 10

Sci skill (Robotics): level-8 (+40%)

doing a Simple task (+15%)

Total: 10 + 10 + 40 + 15 = 75% chance to accomplish a Simple task (looks like they would have a pretty good chance to do the task but still leaves room to fail)

Now I work in IT for Production and DEV/TEST do Beta Testing and R&D...and see folks that fall into the above FAIL TO DO simple things. Now as I said if they fail their roll, they still get to make a Luck Roll which is their score range again to determin if they know they failed and possibly why, helps to set the stage for better roleplaying the situation.

Not everyone can always win or make the roll, there has to be some chance of failure.

 

[F33D]

Well a person that has a Doctorate level would have higher than a Level 3 skill.

NOPE. In Mgt a skill level of 2 can be an M.D. SO, a level 3 could EASILY be a PhD. level in something

So, the question remains unanswered.

 

[AndrewW]

NOPE. In Mgt a skill level of 2 can be an M.D. SO, a level 3 could EASILY be a PhD. level in something

Not if one is using their own house rules.

 

[F33D]

NOPE. In Mgt a skill level of 2 can be an M.D. SO, a level 3 could EASILY be a PhD. level in something

Not if one is using their own house rules.

Of course but, then there is no common ground of understanding. So, unless otherwise stated, it is assumed MgT baseline.