My Fleet Book Has Arrived!!

[Da Boss]

but yeah dire fighters -

I am going to challenge this one

The Shadow Fighters are actually quite good - they are just not adept at dogfighting. But, as any pak'ma'ra knows, a fighter need not be a dogfighter to be good. . .

Really well perhaps but I feel they are overly expensive (2 per patrol rather than Vorlon 3 per flight - who have a beam weapon and antifighter defense against other craft) They have a ok gun but will die to anyone with fighter cover or some Antifighter cover - the best use I can see is as interceptors. Lucky my main fleet is Centauri (who now have arguably the best fighter - Rutarian - which are same price as Shadow fighters..........) A fight between Shadow and Vorlon fighters was before equal now anything but.....I agree with the upgrade to the Vorlons but don't see why the Shadows did nto get one. They did get a special rule I suppose but that does not work against antifghter or dogfights so limited use.

Re dogfighting, you can cover Pak'mara (etc) Super heavies with other fighters on escort- Shadows can't. Lastly the Shadows are already penalised by having one ship at Raid (although it is a great ship ) or below and have to live with dire fighters at patrol. Still don't know where the idea that Shadows can't dogfight came from.......they fought the Minbari a thousand years ago - thought they might have learned something from them!? (evolution through combat and all that) - the Narn fighters ram them to deal with them..........

ah well - 2nd Ed is still great but I am just greedy!

 

[WereRogue]

the best use I can see is as interceptors. You can also cover Pak'mara Super heavies with other fighters on escort?

Exactly. I'm eagerly planning on using them as Interceptors to protect my Shadow Ships, etc from return fire until the distances are closed and I can dispatch my fighters to take out pesky enemy scouts or some other lightly Hulled ship.

Why grouse about how good the Vorlon fighters got, especially since the Nials got hella better and many, many other races have better fighters than Shadows?

-Ken

 

[Da Boss]

the best use I can see is as interceptors. You can also cover Pak'mara Super heavies with other fighters on escort?

Exactly. I'm eagerly planning on using them as Interceptors to protect my Shadow Ships, etc from return fire until the distances are closed and I can dispatch my fighters to take out pesky enemy scouts or some other lightly Hulled ship.

Why grouse about how good the Vorlon fighters got, especially since the Nials got hella better and many, many other races have better fighters than Shadows?

-Ken

Because they were equal before (both rubbish) - now one is (quite rightly) great and the other ain't Yeah you can go after Scouts but don't try that with Minbari, - Advanced Antifighter is going to shred your fighters............(if they get past the Nials )

 

[WereRogue]

Because they were equal before (both rubbish) - now one is (quite rightly) great and the other ain't Yeah you can go after Scouts but don't try that with Minbari, - Advanced Antifighter is going to shred your fighters............(if they get past the Nials )

<shrugs> I just can't get worked up over it. Considering how many fighters out there are better, and how many fighters are worse, I'm happy with where my Shadow Fighters are. I already think (at least in 1e) that the Vorlons were more powerful than the Shadows, and expect that trend to continue.

-Ken

 

[Da Boss]

Oh well maybe its just me then - its not a major problem but I love the Shadows and hoped their fighters would match the coolness of their ships - am not sure it might have been better to make the Shadow fighter a patrol or 1/2 patrol ship and someone suggested before.

 

[victor romeo]

I am not overly bothered by the lack of dogfight on the Shado Fighters; I'm just concerned that none of the ships in the fleet have Anti Fighter. If you are fighting a fighter heavy enemy you have to hope that the enemy parks his fighters in the front arc of your scouts otherwise you can't touch them. Still you have some very good stuff to go after any carriers or queen ships.

 

[WereRogue]

I am not overly bothered by the lack of dogfight on the Shado Fighters; I'm just concerned that none of the ships in the fleet have Anti Fighter. If you are fighting a fighter heavy enemy you have to hope that the enemy parks his fighters in the front arc of your scouts otherwise you can't touch them. Still you have some very good stuff to go after any carriers or queen ships.

Yeah, tell me about it. I was hoping they'd get some AF ability in 2e (or, at least something like the Vorlon Discharge field). It really sucks when running or exploding is your only solution for dealing with fighters.

 

[Da Boss]

I was not bothered if the Shadows don't get a good dogfight but just somehting useful like say a weapon that can be used outside antifighter range - or even just more of them per point. Still it leaves room for a dedicated Escort Variant in the future as the Shdwos would evolve whatever ship they felt they need

I will still say 2nd Ed is great but I also had hoped for a better experience table (fro both the First Ones) - the Other duties is all about scheming and manipulation - both of which they excell at!

ah well off to plan my campaign fleet

hmm - 1 Ancient Shadow, 1 Young Shadow, 2 Stalkers and 4 Scouts I think

 

[WereRogue]

hmm - 1 Ancient Shadow, 1 Young Shadow, 2 Stalkers and 4 Scouts I think

Speaking of which, how does the Stalker fill the void left behind by the Hunter? Still Battle level, right?

-Ken

 

[Da Boss]

Speaking of which, how does the Stalker fill the void left behind by the Hunter?
-Ken

With the wreckage of the poor fools that oppose it! 8)

Yeah Battle - Hunter was War - you get an Youngster at War.

Kids today.............

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Maybe the Shadows' molecular slicer beams should get the Accurate trait? We see then ace fighters a few times with pretty scary accuracy on screen...

 

[Da Boss]

Er yes quite right - but got to let White Stars use their Dodge against it - cos they do that on screen too!!

maybe only against fighters or something? too late now anyway!

 

[Lord David the Denied]

It's never too late. There are always S&P articles, reprints, supplements, etc. The White Star point had crossed my mind. A simple special rule for the Shadows' beams would address it. As you said, make it ignore fighters' dodge but not capital ships. Easy.

 

[Da Boss]

How about go back to the Shadow Beams never miss anything (all initial dice hit - roll normally after) and make the White Stars an exception to it allowing them to Dodge :twisted:

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Eh? :?

 

[Da Boss]

Sorry IIRC the old (1st set of rules I played) Shadow Ships used to have the Accurate trait which meant they never missed...........you did not need to roll for initial hit - it was very nasty - and my suggestion was only a joke! but then also any ship was destroyed on a 6,6 critical ! (a Starfury once destroyed my Shadow Cruiser! - great game - i had just cut a Sharlin in half!)

 

[WereRogue]

Speaking of which, how does the Stalker fill the void left behind by the Hunter?
-Ken

With the wreckage of the poor fools that oppose it! 8)

Yeah Battle - Hunter was War - you get an Youngster at War.

Kids today.............

Duh, yeah, I knew the Hunter was War.

So, does the Stalker get fighters? Is it bascially something halfway between a Ship and a Scout?

How do the young and Ancient Ships compare to their Armageddon and SFoS counterparts?

-Ken

 

[Da Boss]

Scout with a Beam -----------------Slice and Dice for effect 8)

 

[WereRogue]

Scout with a Beam -----------------Slice and Dice for effect 8)

So, it gets Stealth, or am I asking for too much?

-Ken

 

[Da Boss]

too much but it has other defences - oh yes!