Movement modifiers in combat - Fast battle-dress problems

[Nerhesi]

So a TL 15 ultra-light battle-dress can go 50 meters per round. Modifications can increase this significantly, lets say up to 100 meters per round.

Any battle suit with a TL 14 grav-belt style motive source goes 400 km/h. This makes it around 111 m/s. That pretty much the 110 meters per round (at least)

The issue with this is that there is those combat modifiers regarding getting a -1 to be hit per 10 meters moved.

This situations are really only relevant with high-tech, high-end combat so is a -10 insurmountable?

 

[F33D]

This situations are really only relevant with high-tech, high-end combat so is a -10 insurmountable?

This is an example of why God created GM's. The exact situation has to be looked at and judged. For instance, is the guy (in the suit) coming right at you? Moving directly away? Going across your field of fire? Etc., etc.

 

[SSWarlock]

And what about the motion-detecting auto-lock-on perimeter turrets mounting hyper velocity VRF Gauss Guns? The nice thing about TL15 Battle Dress are all the TL15 weapon systems designed to kill it.

 

[F33D]

And what about the motion-detecting auto-lock-on perimeter turrets mounting hyper velocity VRF Gauss Guns? The nice thing about TL15 Battle Dress are all the TL15 weapon systems designed to kill it.

Oh yes. If we can make a man portable Stinger missile at TL 7, imagine what exists at TL 15 to handle someone flitting around in Battle Dress... :twisted:

 

[SSWarlock]

If you can get a copy of the original Striker on eBay or from Far Future Enterprises (i.e. Marc Miller), you won't have to imagine it..you can build it!

 

[Nerhesi]

Yeah there is quite a bit you can do as I posted in other threads but I'm wondering if -10 is too much. Granted, at that pointed with that movement speed and that tech level, the enemy will probably ignore most other negative mods and your speed will not allow you to take advantage of the rest.

So between skill, characteristic, bonuses from implants/skill boost bio/cyber (from higher TL), aiming minor action and aiming mods... you'd hit +7 (on average) to a +10 with some maximizing.

 

[dragoner]

I would probably have just a limit, not - 10, maybe Formidable at - 6, just because that is max in tasks; but, it was in my soldier's manual of common tasks on how to shoot at aircraft with your weapon, we trained with it some. The truth is more like it just swoops over from treetop and everything either explodes or doesn't and you are lucky to get off a revenger like a redeye.

 

[tolcreator]

How about:
-1 at 10
-2 at 20
-3 at 40
-4 at 80
-5 at 160

etc

The rules as written are the "Newtonian approximation" for slow moving combattants

 

[dragoner]

Also I would add that the Battle Dress wearer or other fast mover, has to accelerate, and that max velocity is not instantaneous.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Just a thought off the top of my head, sometimes it can be hard to put my thoughts into English.

Maybe this comparison will divulge the premise

Consider the difference between
1) a target moving in a straight line at a steady speed of 60 meters per round
vs
2) a target dodging, zig zagging, and varying speed sporadically but averaging 20 meters per round

 

[dragoner]

At which range will also affect those two, and just about every other condition. Putting a cap of - 6 seems the optimal solution.

 

[F33D]

Here's a video of a TL 4/5 weapon. Now, this thing will penetrate ~8 inches of steel armor. Even if you don't penetrate but hit a person in Battledress, the body inside is going to be scrambled. Rendered Combat Ineffective.

 

[Nerhesi]

Here's a video of a TL 4/5 weapon. Now, this thing will penetrate ~8 inches of steel armor. Even if you don't penetrate but hit a person in Battledress, the body inside is going to be scrambled. Rendered Combat Ineffective.

Because we know what the quality and effectiveness of TL 15 armor material is right?

 

[F33D]

Here's a video of a TL 4/5 weapon. Now, this thing will penetrate ~8 inches of steel armor. Even if you don't penetrate but hit a person in Battledress, the body inside is going to be scrambled. Rendered Combat Ineffective.

Because we know what the quality and effectiveness of TL 15 armor material is right?

Irrelevant. If you understand the effects of acceleration on the human body you don't NEED to know how tough TL 15 body armor is. If one doesn't then they might be lead to think that it is relevant...

I'll give you an easier example. A truck going 50 mph hits a person in Battle Dress. The armor may not even have a scratch. But, take off the helmet and you could pour out the human inside. Not really but I think you can extrapolate from there...

 

[CosmicGamer]

I'll give you an easier example. A truck going 50 mph hits a person in Battle Dress. The armor may not even have a scratch. But, take off the helmet and you could pour out the human inside. Not really but I think you can extrapolate from there...

I'll give a couple easy examples too.

A truck going 50mph hits an everyday car and it isn't always fatal; sometimes the people can walk away.

Next, a truck going 50 mph hits a TL 7 or so NASCAR...

High tech Battledress would certainly not be just a man in medieval armor made with advanced more indestructible materials with a few high tech sensors and displays bolted on. Perhaps future high tech materials that spread out and absorb impacts better than kevlar or anything else we have today, maybe a supper advanced g suit is part of the armor, layers of armor with shock absorbent gel between them, straps and padding so the wearer is not bouncing around inside, and so on.
http://theweek.com/article/index/236550/the-bulletproof-super-material-thats-paper-thin

 

[F33D]

A truck going 50mph hits an everyday car and it isn't always fatal; sometimes the people can walk away.

I said combat ineffective. And sure, 1 out of 10,000 might walk away.

High tech Battledress would certainly not be just a man in medieval armor made with advanced more indestructible materials with a few high tech sensors and displays bolted on. Perhaps future high tech materials that spread out and absorb impacts better than kevlar or anything else we have today

Again, irrelevant. The instant, extremely high acceleration is what would damage the human body inside. You don't get the basic physics involved.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Again, irrelevant. The instant, extremely high acceleration is what would damage the human body inside. You don't get the basic physics involved.

Sorry if you don't get the basic physics and relevance of the current day TL engineering that goes into the design of high acceleration and g force safety for the people inside of race cars and jet fighters and advanced materials available that absorb and distribute forces and how that might be just the start of the futuristic capabilities of battledress.

 

[CosmicGamer]

A truck going 50mph hits an everyday car and it isn't always fatal; sometimes the people can walk away.

I said combat ineffective. And sure, 1 out of 10,000 might walk away.

Where do you get your statistics? Out of thin air?

Over 5.5 million reported accidents in 2009
0.6% were fatal
27.6% resulted in injury
71.9% were property damage only

In the limited few minutes I had free for this, I found statistics for what speed the different deaths occurred at but otherwise don't know the speeds of the accidents so one will have to draw their own conclusions or do a little research instead of just making unsupported statements and throwing numbers around.

Perhaps folk in battledress have something better than seat belts and airbags available?

Battledress would be designed with the best we have today and then multiply that by how much for the future TL capabilities? Operated by people selected and trained for battle conditions using futuristic methods far better than fighter pilots, race car drivers, or astronauts currently use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnHRCeUcDL4

Maybe watch the NASCAR drivers get out of their cars, including Larson whos car had the front and back ripped off.

 

[simonh]

Maybe watch the NASCAR drivers get out of their cars, including Larson whos car had the front and back ripped off.

The advantage of being in a car is that you get to have about 1m to 2m of car between you and the impact point, so the impacting object gets decelerated over a 100-200 cm distance during the course of the collision. If you're in Battle Dress that's say from about 10-20cm thick, the 'crumple zone' is one tenth as thick as that, so the G force of the impact will be ten times as high.

Modern car crumple zone designs are highly efficient at this point, approaching ideal performance, so there's not much if any leeway for a Battle Dress design to improve on them in terms of efficiency.

Having said all that, none of this necessarily makes Battle Dress useless. To make up some numbers for a typical platoon level conflict, just because the opposition is likely to have a handful, or even a dozen weapons available that can defeat your handful of Battle Dress equipped troops, that doesn't mean that being largely immune to the other 50 or so weapons they have isn't useful. Obviously, if you vary those numbers a bit you'll come to different conclusions but in general if the down side to Battle Dress is low (which will depend a lot on the specific tactical situation), you're going to be better of with it than without it.

Simon Hibbs

 

[locarno24]

Irrelevant. If you understand the effects of acceleration on the human body you don't NEED to know how tough TL 15 body armor is. If one doesn't then they might be lead to think that it is relevant...

I'll give you an easier example. A truck going 50 mph hits a person in Battle Dress. The armor may not even have a scratch. But, take off the helmet and you could pour out the human inside. Not really but I think you can extrapolate from there...

A guy in modern armoured carapace, definitely agree (albeit I'd put down a speed higher than 50 mph for 'pouring someone out'). Armour doesn't really keep you in the fight; someone shot with a high-calibre round or similar will still be on the floor and out of it for some time, even if broadly uninjured.

My one comment would be that TL15 armour with grav assist is fitted with a system that - in ships using the same technology, at least - seems able to largely or even completely divorce the effects of acceleration and inertia insideand outside. It doesn't seem unreasonable that armour which by design may attract fire from antitank weapons be designed with similar capabilities.