Minis or no minis

rgrove0172

Mongoose
Ive been away from roleplaying for 15 years or so and recently got involved again witht the discovery of the Conan:RPG. Ive spent the last couple of months purchasing all the books and modules and becoming aquainted with the 3.5 rules (which I was completely inexperienced with)

Im almost finished with the preparations for my groups first session and suddenly it hit me. How am I going to present the tactical action in the game.

In my roleplaying days years ago we scoffed at the idea of miniatures, primarily because as young players with families and mediocre jobs we simply couldnt afford them. We told ourselves that no miniature could do justice to the detail and versatility our minds were capable of. How could you reproduce every character, NPC, monster, animal or whatever in the game in miniature? How about setting? How to represent the continually shifting and expanding world the characters live in with miniatures? It simply wasnt a possibility, so we used dry erase boards or sometimes cardboard counters on drawn maps and the like.

It worked fine, the detail and imagry was kept in our heads where it belonged and the conventional diagrams we used to track movement and such didnt distract from that in any way.

Now it years later. Originally I planned to handle it the same way - until I attended a game convention in Austin Tx. the other day. I was there with a historical miniatures group but popped my head in the Roleplayer's room a few times to check out where the hobby had gone in my absense. I was shocked to see miniatures on every table. Beautifully hand painted, well sculpted figures everywhere you looked, but then I looked closer. These beautiful representations of their characters were wandering across dry-erase matts with scrawled lines for walls and doors. Poker chips or bingo buttons where being used for markers here while on another table the Orcs the characters were facing were Kobold miniatures because there GM didnt have any Orc miniatures. In another game the Ogre they were facing was a spider miniature, again because they didnt have the right figs.

When I asked one of the players if this was annoying he commented - "Sure, but who can afford to have enough of everything you need in a game, you have to improvise - Use your imagination dude!"

So here I am - wondering if miniatures have become so much a cornerstone of the hobby that I should try and incorperate them. But if I do, it seems to me your arent accomplishing much if you have to improvise with 2-D terrain renditions and substitute markers etc. Wouldnt it be just as effective to fabricate some nice maps and neat markers to use and avoid all the hassle? (Not to mention cost and time painting) I mean, if you have to "use your imagination" anyway, why not just use it?
 
I personally use miniatures in any game I run. Back in the day it was rather cost ineffective, but we have many options now.

One option is to use the prepainted D&D minis WoTC produces. You can get commons off of eBay for a good price. For Conan RPG, you won't need the variety that is needed in D20 (Forgotten Realms, Ebberon). Just pick out a bunch of human or human looking commons, maybe an ape or two, etc.
 
I would have to go with rgrove0172 on this one. I think imagination should be the prime factor in RPG, and grids, counters, &c. should be in the background, if at all. However the industry have been creeping back to more and more minis, IMHO, and imagination, apparently, is now taking a back-seat. :cry: I just break out a stack of graph-paper and do the 'telestrator' thing. :lol: Sure, it looks like a football game on crack, but it is cheaper than greedy WotC getting more of my dough.
 
rgrove0172 said:
Wouldnt it be just as effective to fabricate some nice maps and neat markers to use and avoid all the hassle? (Not to mention cost and time painting) I mean, if you have to "use your imagination" anyway, why not just use it?

Paper miniatures to the rescue:

http://hyboria.xoth.net/resources/index.htm

- thulsa
 
Well I use some of the D&D mins humans of course with a few undeads but also one of my guys has the mage knight peaces so we use them for some rooms if I plan on something intresting in there but usally stay with the dry-erase matt
:-)
 
Yogah of Yag said:
I would have to go with rgrove0172 on this one. I think imagination should be the prime factor in RPG, and grids, counters, &c. should be in the background, if at all. However the industry have been creeping back to more and more minis, IMHO, and imagination, apparently, is now taking a back-seat. :cry: I just break out a stack of graph-paper and do the 'telestrator' thing. :lol: Sure, it looks like a football game on crack, but it is cheaper than greedy WotC getting more of my dough.


I don't see how miniatures hinder imagination - I think they enhance your imagination of the described events and even add a dimension of personality to the PC's while simplifying the rules for the GM. I love using miniatures in a game and remember using them as far back as AD & D, long before AOO. I still have my first AD & D character's mini - and have never used him again since he died. But, the blue robed mage holding a crystal ball and a staff keeps my wizard Glom alive to this day. 8)
 
I don't see how miniatures hinder imagination - I think they enhance your imagination of the described events

I know this is one of those topics that everyone feels differently about but Id have to say I cant see how miniatures could help BUT hinder imagination. When in my mind's eye Im imagining my character and the surroundings in great detail, a glance at the little miniature in front of me, still in the same armor and carrying the same weapon as he has for several session, despite the fact that in actuality he is now using an axe and wearing furs, Im instantly reminded that Im playing a GAME, with a cute little GAME PIECE in front of me. Generic graph paper and a pencil notation seem far less obtrusive into my imagination.
 
rgrove0172 said:
I don't see how miniatures hinder imagination - I think they enhance your imagination of the described events

I know this is one of those topics that everyone feels differently about but Id have to say I cant see how miniatures could help BUT hinder imagination. When in my mind's eye Im imagining my character and the surroundings in great detail, a glance at the little miniature in front of me, still in the same armor and carrying the same weapon as he has for several session, despite the fact that in actuality he is now using an axe and wearing furs, Im instantly reminded that Im playing a GAME, with a cute little GAME PIECE in front of me. Generic graph paper and a pencil notation seem far less obtrusive into my imagination.

That's true - but really doesn't make sense from my point of view.
The reminders that you are playing a game could come from the can of Mountain Dew in front of you too. Or the modern connivence of heat from a furnace. Or anything really - the level of detail you describe can be achieved with or without a miniature - that's a personal level of acceptance of reality. But, game on either way! :D
 
Well, in my last Conan campaign I didn't use minis. My group were long hard-core deedle dee enthusiasts who booed and demanded minis. When I first got the first edition rules, I took one of the player's big sheets of graph paper and drew a chaotic maze of streets from the Maul in Zamora, and had four players put down paper minis and I threw them against 4 NPCs (soldiers and a thief) and I wiped out the party, TPK. This was a play test to see how Conan's combat differed from deedle dee 3.0

But from our first adventure on, I used narrative storytelling. I'd scribble terrain on a piece of paper. But as the players rightly told me, as this game is based on OGL d20 rules, spacing and threatened squares are important for things like the rules for attacks of opportunity, reach, or concealment or flat-footedness which is essential for thieves trying to backstab, as well as having adjacent enemies. All of which affect play greatly in this game. I'd carefully describe the settings, show them computer drawn or scribbled maps and give them the distances.

That's the state of this game system.

Our GM for our Scarred Lands game uses tiny little skulls and little red stones in the place of minis on a dry-erase board, he has used jellybabies; I've used d6s, paper, minis and counters in various game systems. You don't need to buy minis either. You could do like Yogah of Yag and I have mentioned and used narrative description or alternative counters in place of plastic or metal minis. As for me, though Diabetes has damaged my eyes a bit I'm trying to get back into the habit of painting minis and bought a few again. I even have old minis of Conan ala Arnold from Conan the Barbarian and King Kull and the Kurgan (in his lizard armour from the first scene he appears in in "Highlander" from the early 80s (were they Ral Partha?).

If you have to, try experimenting with and without like I did before I started my last campaign. Let the players know that it's a test drive to familiarize everyone with the rules (so if you kill everyone (TPK) they won't have to re-roll all over again). I think that should help you all out getting started.

Good luck. Hope this helps. 8)
 
Thanks for all the comments. Its good to hear that some of you guys have the same concerns and opinions that I do. I began to feel I was some sort of outcast because I didnt plan to use miniatures.

But from our first adventure on, I used narrative storytelling.

This is exactly how we played years ago but the tactical detail in d20 seems to mandate some sort of real tactical display, for the reasons you mentioned. We will be using maps of various scales to accomodate the size of the environ. Might be 1" for 5' in a small ruin but 1" to 50' for a temple garden or wilderness encounter. I plan to just extrapolate the movements, ranges and etc. for each. Ill hold to the tactical rules as closely as possible but may fudge a bit on the larger scale encounters. I think my players will be ok with it.
 
Okay, well good luck. Watch out for Attacks of Opportunity especially. They can be used most effectively (aka lethally) by characters whose players or GM are aware of the game rules, as is combat in general. Well good luck.

If you have time and are so inclined, check out the forum Conan blogs and campaign journals where GMs like myself wrote up our group's adventures in various threads within these forums. May be of help, maybe not. :lol:

Anyways, hope this helps. 8)
 
I like the D20 convention of using figs. It's engrained in the game now so much so that you almost can't avoid using them, and I'm including counters and paper "figs" in that same category as actual minis.

Mini use and the D20 combat system make executing combats much simpler in a fantasy setting, although for non-fantasy I just wing it. It's not as necessary, particulary with, say, the SG-1 RPG which doesn't even have AoOs.

Plus it's cool having a cool fig of your character, whether it ever hits a dry erase grid or not. :wink:
 
I use a dry-erase battlemat from Chessex and counters (the ones you get in the Shadizar and Messantia boxed sets, as well as stuff I have from Fiery Dragon Productions).
I think using minis/counters helps a lot with the tactical aspects of d20 combat (attacks of opportunity, flanking etc.). It probably works fine without them too, though.
 
I definately agree that mini's are the way to go. In Conan, there are too many feats that require you to know and understand the phsycial relationship between one character and another...it's designed for mini's!

I've been collecting 'Barbarian' mini's since this game has come out. Reaper Mini's has a good selection of male and female mini's for many of the world's civilizations.

(A long long long time ago, I even posted some pics on this site for some painted ones...)
 
Back
Top