MI vehicles

Well its what you see in the show alot-

1. They use jump jets when specifically authorized, and when landing initially from orbit.

2. Only in a few dire emergencies do they use the jump jets- in several dozen incidents troopers fall and rely on grapples to catch themselves
(or Chas Bots with a heart of Gold to catch them)

Occasionally troopers fall and hurt themselves...

1. suggests limited fuel to the cap troopers and quite possibly the majority of it is used in landing via drop capsules.

2. Suggests that fuel is on occasion so low from either recent drops or so limited that it is either A. completely unavailable for a good number or ops. Or considered so valuable that it is not used even in emergencies.


Now game wise it really depends on what you want the cap troopers to represent.... now that we have exo suits- we have the constant jumping that the book represents... if you want to be closer to the CGI you would make the jump ability for cap troopers extremely limited... there are simply far too many instances where jump jets could have been used to greater effect and they did not....

why would SICON pay for such jump ability? Because it allows troops to deploy from orbit, it gives them the option to cover great distances when absolutely neccessary. But its not meant for constant use.

The short time of a battle SST represents has little relation to fuel usage just consider how many jumps they make in most games.. Exactly how much fuel could possibly fit in that pack? Granted its science fiction but its pretty extreme to expect every infantryman to carry ernough fuel to jump say 7 times in one battle, a distance of 12 inches which is what in real distance? almost a football field if we consider weapon ranges more important than the physical size of the models.

SO my point- if you wanted truer to the show units, the jump ability would be limited, now you could reduce the jump range, but that will reduce the over all usefulness of the jump entirely... But I suppose a 8inch jump would still be remarkable... even a 6 inch, because you are also shooting...

Id prefer personally making the cap trooper tougher... in exchange for the jump being extreme range (20-30inches) but one-shot. Why? Because cap troopers are frankly very easy to beat in my experience... the toughest enemy army is proabbly a well played exosuit or LAMI platoon (or mix) Marauders are after, and then followed by Cap Troopers...

the vast majority of Bug units can dispense with cap troopers easily... and the cap troopers do not have the numbers or cost effective payloads (missile cost ratio with survivabillity factored in)


I would like to see Cap Troopers become hardier... it made sense for them to have the constant jump because at the time we did not have exosuits for our Book Fans fix.... so it was a compromise, and it showed off how much more awesomely movement and weapon freedom is in SST compared to Warhammer 40K.... we dont need that anymore.... and the current balance is very anti-cap trooper IMHO

so maybe if they had Kill 9, 6 inch jump (or the 20 inch one shot jump) with the option of extending jumps that start their movement from a APC or ammo dump, would make them fluffier.

Oh and if your apc-s were better armored than marauders and carried lasers or a Trip Hammer, and acted as mobile ammo dumps... would you consider that a scenario piece? Even if we change nothing on cap troopers, I would use two of those in a heartbeat.... even if all they had was movement 4 (silly it should be 6)

Good Hunting
 
Gauntlet- said:
almost a football field if we consider weapon ranges more important than the physical size of the models.

I think it's pretty clear weapon ranges aren't theoretical maximum ranges but deliberatly shortened to allow dynamic games...

More of couple of throw rock range.


Id prefer personally making the cap trooper tougher... in exchange for the jump being extreme range (20-30inches) but one-shot. Why? Because cap troopers are frankly very easy to beat in my experience... the toughest enemy army is proabbly a well played exosuit or LAMI platoon (or mix) Marauders are after, and then followed by Cap Troopers...

So to help cap trooppers you are going to give them slight boost in toughness(+1 for target and kill would be insignificant. Think +3) and remove their best asset. Yup. Great thinking! NOT!

You would KILL cap trooppers as viable option. Also it would be bad for meta game. As we have now:

Toughness: Marauders
Firepower: Exosuits
Numbers: LAMI

Cap trooppers provide decent mix of firepower, number and couple that with mobility. Remove their mobility(and one shot 20" jump would be joke) and you have just invalidated them. You would need to give them ATLEAST target 6+ kill 8+ and preferably 7+/10+ to compensate. Otherwise bugs will still simply crunch them. Target 5+? Hardly matters when 2d6+1 piercing/1 crunch you easily nevertheless.

the vast majority of Bug units can dispense with cap troopers easily... and the cap troopers do not have the numbers or cost effective payloads (missile cost ratio with survivabillity factored in)

Missile? Javelin is their special weapon. Not bread&butter weapon.

compared to Warhammer 40K.... we dont need that anymore.... and the current balance is very anti-cap trooper IMHO

So to counter that you would make them completely worthless...LOL!

so maybe if they had Kill 9

And on what grounds btw? That armour over them doesn't seem that thick. They would suddenly have higher kill than exosuits...Despite them wearing "bit" thicker armour.

Logic should apply here...

Oh and if your apc-s were better armored than marauders and carried lasers or a Trip Hammer,

That would make them better fighting vechiles than marauders that are supposed to be better than main battle tanks! Sorry but what they would be would be less tough than marauder and MAYBE deringer attached. If that...
 
smaller target, more agile can account for higher kill values... IE a Hopper Bug, do you think it has kill 8 because it is equivelent of an exosuit in armor value? Of course not, these are arbitrary values.

THe APC on the show had what looks exactly like the cannons on the backs of the Marauders...

A main tank in this era could have a rail gun, IE the Skinny mass Driver... Times 2 with supporting javelin fire... not to mention point defense... but itd be a bitch to deploy.

Why would an APC be less tough than a Marauder? The more moving components you have the harder it is to armor... consider how thin the plating on a marauder has to be to allow it to move properly... now look at any wheeled vehicle. You can pile on much thicker armor on a wheeled vehicle.

Cap Troopers main weapon is the morita... but the most important weapon for any MI platoon is their missiles. Period. Moritas are vital too, but you need both, and the survival rate vs quantity of fielding javelins is just not great compared to other platoons.

With that Ill stop bantering, your not really interested in discussing something Respectfully, which is pretty clear from your sarcasm. You have good arguments, its just two different view points, calm down.
 
Gauntlet- said:
A main tank in this era could have a rail gun, IE the Skinny mass Driver... Times 2 with supporting javelin fire... not to mention point defense... but it'd be a bitch to deploy.
Yes and we would all laugh when the Bugs recognize that have just to dig some small caverns below the battlefield and all the Super Tanks drop down there and can't get out.
Or when it gets nuked off the board.

Gauntlet- said:
Why would an APC be less tough than a Marauder?
Because... it's an APC?
It is designed to carry troops, not to be deployed in the middle of a battlefield and fighting against Tanker Bugs (it can't have enough armour to survive a plasma hit anyway).
I haven't seen a modern APC with a 155mm Gun and the armour of a T-90.

Gauntlet- said:
Cap Troopers main weapon is the morita... but the most important weapon for any MI platoon is their missiles. Period. Moritas are vital too, but you need both, and the survival rate vs quantity of fielding javelins is just not great compared to other platoons.

Cap Troopers main strength is their ability to jump and therefore not to take damage.
Their missiles are important, but without their jump they wouldn't be worth anything.

If you let yourself getting cornered by bugs or try to do stand&shoot it's your own fault.
Any Cap Trooper that doesn't move is a dead trooper. And hey - the Cap's Launchers are still better than those of the LAMI, which need to ready before the can fire.


CAP Troopers are the perfect allround army.
Marauder Platoons easily get plasma/nuked off the board and LAMI Platoons lack any significant movement. Exos are fast and hard-hitting but not that tough and numerous.
They all get their problems in certain scenarios. But there is almost nothing a CAP Trooper Platoon can't do.
 
Okay first and foremost- My point is simply what you would have if you IF you wanted it closer to the show.

secondly- I dont play cap troopers regularly, Ive said my comments as a bug player...


thirdly- your right no modern APCs have that ability.... But we are not talking about a modern APC. We are talking about a future APC, which we know from the show would have the ability to recharge troopers and marauders in the field, carry cargo, and has a main cannon very similar to a Trip Hammer Mortar....

Considering how important a role that is, and considering how foolish a mainline tank would be.... Why Wouldnt you armor this APC.... especially considering that its meant to carry supplies and troops of Power Armor- an extremely expensive unit.... we are not fielding these things like traditional modern APCs... they arnt needed to move troops nearly so much as to resupply/repair and sustain troopers in long term engagements. Their value isnt that of a simple truck, each APC is operable in zero-atmosphere for one thing.

Of course the cap trooper ML is better than the LAMI they have twice as many, and the cost of the man holding it is halved... considering how little difference their is in killing a captrooper or LAMI the LAMI are winning out.... I understand mobility is armor of a sort...

but its only of a sort... of course you move and jump every turn anyone who doesnt is a fool, but frankly thats countered pretty well by bug armies, and it will often happen... the problem is numbers the Cap Troopers with mobility dont have enough in a typical army to be as effective as they should be. You could fix that in all sorts of ways... frankly im not even concerned with fixing it...

I was discussing how and why an APC is useful to this army, based on the show...

So please stop jumping down my throat.
 
or you could handle the supplies in a more MI way than sending APC's in the game "Terran Ascendancy" the supplies are handled by drop-crates, with ammo,fuel etc. it seems more in character with fast moving force, that APC's would have hard time keeping up with.
 
Yes. I also asume they get most of their equipment by drop capsules.

An APC wouldn't make that much sense because it's fragile and slow.
If it had the armour of a tank it would never be able to keep up with the MI and give proper fire support. It wouldn't get where it's needed in time.

An APC may be useful in some scenarios but on the most battlefields - especially on those where the "get in - blast it - get out" CAP Troopers operate you won't see one.

Mechanised LAMI would make sense though. LAMI are deployed on large Battlefields where they can bring their strenght of numbers to bear.
LAMI is not a raiding troop like CAPs - it's a hammer that will smash anything standing in their way. Not very subtile but quite effective.
It's the a LAMI Platoons where even battle tanks would fit in.
Not the CAPs.
 
okay.... so man sized suits can jump whenever they feel like, and have a good stock of fuel but a decently armored APC wouldnt possibly be able to keep up?

Assuming decent terrain tanks can get up to 30-60MPH that would be FASTER... and we are not talking about the same armor of a tank, merely more armor than a marauder, due to simple thickness, unless they are plating APCs in plastic for no good reason... and besides it doesnt need to keep up- it needs to be just behind the troopers supporting immediate resupply...

you know a realllly funny thing I just watched, D day episode of klendathu campaign, Ricco is on top of a small ledge, surrounded by warriors... now the troops in this episode were going to deploy via orbit drop and Thus Required to have fuel in the jump jets.... BUT they crash landed...

thus we know ricco has jump jet fuel.... he is now surrounded by about 12 bugs... and he is at a height...

what does he do? Does he jump to safety like any sane man would... No he jumps down with no jets... and trys to hop from the top of one bug to another... an attempt which rightly fails and dizzy saves his ass.

Why? Mostly cuz the show had alot of plot that they wanted physical antics that jump jets would make irrelevant.... but if your going from the source thats what you got... they love that fuel more than any sane man should.


PS I love terran ascendency, and my group actually plays with ammo dumps that can be dropped in.

Ammo dump base cost raised to 75, 25 point upgrade gives it a drop capsule.

Very cool.
 
Besides Gauntlet, they have to do a 'ready' action before jumping down your throat anyway :lol: . I think they understand now that you were just tossing around ideas that were more compatible with the series and not trying to rewrite the game. Maybe the whole concept of the Mobile Infantry is based upon the threat of tanks falling into "tiger traps", and thus the power-suited infantry being able to keep "on the bounce" as it were. It would have been interesting to have the series start with SICON fielding future MBTs that kept getting ambushed by undermining. Then somebody comes up with the idea of a "mobile" self-propelled infantry suit, kind of like describing trading your rooks and bishops for masses of pawns. This would be a fun way to reverse-engineer the introduction of the infantry power-suit and the logical formation of the Mobile Infantry in fighting the Arachnid threat. Then the Lamis and colony forces would get the "old" MBTs for support use (like the old habit of the U.S. National Guard getting the hand-me-down equipment from the Air Force and Army!). If I was redoing the CGI series, that's what I'd do and show the 'evolution' (pardon the description, heh) of to the Mobile Infantry.
 
Gauntlet, don't place too much thinking into the logic of Hollywood. They're full of inconsistancies. Mostly they just don't do what you think they'd do because they ignore common sense and it looks much more dramatic to jump down than to fly away from the threat. I've seen this over and over again. It's just like Hollywood to have a monster movie where the female lead character is being chased down a street and doesn't do the sensible thing and kick off her high heals. Am I right? :lol: I might have seen that a hundred times in movies and maybe once I've seen a chick drop out of her shoes and outpace the thing chasing her. :roll: For moving Cap Troopers over long distances I'd agree that dropping capsules for ammo and power recharges would be logical, and the APCs would mostly go to the Lamis. There can always be exceptions, of course. I do hope that the 'new' SST:Evo brings in APCs and MBTs for the supporting forces and colony garrisons. Heck, it's just more stuff for Mongoose to sell, isn't it? :wink:

Here is a pic of an "ADP" ammo drop pod with a group of temporary barracks that I made this summer. I suppose it should also be able to recharge suits, eh?

CAMP_ZULU-XRAY.jpg


SST_AMMO_POD.jpg
 
You chaps just think they look like soccer balls (or for the rest of the world footballs). Actually they are a SICON-issued tactically-deployable temporary Mobile Infantry field barracks with an inclusive hermetically-sealed transistional crew airlock with an attached 'smart' self-forming inflatable nano-fabric hemispherical crew cabin that is pre-programmed to one standard atmosphere, used for planet-bound troopers. Then again, they might just be soccer balls... :wink:
 
BuShips said:
You chaps just think they look like soccer balls (or for the rest of the world footballs). Actually they are a SICON-issued tactically-deployable temporary Mobile Infantry field barracks with an inclusive hermetically-sealed transistional crew airlock with an attached 'smart' self-forming inflatable nano-fabric hemispherical crew cabin that is pre-programmed to one standard atmosphere, used for planet-bound troopers. Then again, they might just be soccer balls... :wink:
AKA severed bucky-balls :lol: , still won't drop that whole scene about your "tactically-deployable temporary Mobile Infantry field barracks with an inclusive hermetically-sealed transistional crew airlock with an attached 'smart' self-forming inflatable nano-fabric hemispherical crew cabin" :shock: , how about TDTMfBIHTcaSSINFHC, then again maybe not...
 
Well Thanks every one for posting your ideas,pros, cons, and examples of Mi vehicles. I see why the caps would and wouldn't need tanks and apcs, but i agree with most of you how the Lami would need apcs and Warthog like vehicles for transports and mobile bunkers. :D
 
roughneck GIR said:
AKA severed bucky-balls :lol: , still won't drop that whole scene about your "tactically-deployable temporary Mobile Infantry field barracks with an inclusive hermetically-sealed transistional crew airlock with an attached 'smart' self-forming inflatable nano-fabric hemispherical crew cabin" :shock: , how about TDTMfBIHTcaSSINFHC, then again maybe not...

Yeah, whenever anyone asks for the phonetic version of that acronym, I just usually suggest that they sneeze loudly :lol: . The funny thing about that shape is that it is a viable structual design. The "Bucky" part of bucky ball is from a gentleman by the name of Buckminster Fuller, but then you probably knew that. :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
http://www.hfmgv.org/dymaxion/
 
BuShips said:
roughneck GIR said:
AKA severed bucky-balls :lol: , still won't drop that whole scene about your "tactically-deployable temporary Mobile Infantry field barracks with an inclusive hermetically-sealed transistional crew airlock with an attached 'smart' self-forming inflatable nano-fabric hemispherical crew cabin" :shock: , how about TDTMfBIHTcaSSINFHC, then again maybe not...

Yeah, whenever anyone asks for the phonetic version of that acronym, I just usually suggest that they sneeze loudly :lol: . The funny thing about that shape is that it is a viable structual design. The "Bucky" part of bucky ball is from a gentleman by the name of Buckminster Fuller, but then you probably knew that. :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
http://www.hfmgv.org/dymaxion/
Yes, yes I knew that :lol: . For quiet some time too. heh, i still haven't touched the hover craft :oops:
 
roughneck GIR said:
Neat, maybe later on, if I can find some supplies, I'll build some bucky-tents of my own :lol:

Well, since you probably have Target stores near you, head for the auto detailing area and grab some of the soccer window cling thingys that make it look like the ball is embedded in your auto glass. That's what these were from, and you don't have to kill a juvenile soccer ball to get the flat spot, heh.
 
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