Medkits???

[GhostWolf69]

Ok, I give up.

Can anyone help me out here? I've read the Medkit description over and over again. I've read the Medic-skill over and over again. I've also read the Healing and Treatments section in the COmbat rules a couple of times.

I can't find out what a Medkit "actually" does.

Game mechanics-wise. Do I get a bonus? Is it required? Do I have a hefty penalty without it? What?

What am I missing?

/wolf

 

[GhostWolf69]

Another question: Is it depleted after use or can I use it more than once?

/wolf

 

[rust]

According to the text of the German edition, a doctor or medic cannot
treat a wounded or sick person "in the field" without a medkit - no med-
kit, no treatment.
Also, according to the description of the medkit, one should be able to
use it several times at least, but would then have to replace used mate-
rial.

 

[GhostWolf69]

According to the text of the German edition, a doctor or medic cannot
treat a wounded or sick person "in the field" without a medkit - no med-
kit, no treatment.
Also, according to the description of the medkit, one should be able to
use it several times at least, but would then have to replace used mate-
rial.

Sounds reasonable. I might have missed it somewhere. So now I only have to come up with a Ref-call on how often to refil and what it costs.

I do recall though that the Medkit description says something like "Higher Tech level Med kits do not give further Bonuses, instead..." blah blah. So maybe that's where I got it from that it should be a bonus somewhere.

/wolf

 

[rust]

I do recall though that the Medkit description says something like "Higher Tech level Med kits do not give further Bonuses, instead..." blah blah. So maybe that's where I got it from that it should be a bonus somewhere.

The German text does not have the "further", it just states that a higher
TL medkit does not give a bonus.

 

[GhostWolf69]

The German text does not have the "further", it just states that a higher
TL medkit does not give a bonus.

Yeah I re-checked. It's the same in English.
Can't find the part where it says it's required though.

Where was that in the German version?

/wolf

 

[rust]

Where was that in the German version?

The description of the medkit includes that it allows / enables (both trans-
lations would make sense) the medic to work in the field. So, if he does
not have it, he is not allowed / able to work in the field.

I am not sure whether the English original of that sentence would have
the same clear meaning, but in German it seems quite obvious.

 

[GhostWolf69]

Maybe but IMO it's a little weak.

. All medikits contain diagnostic devices and scanners, surgical tools and a panoply of drugs and antibiotics, allowing a medic to practise his art in the field.

If I was to restrict the use of Medic skill and or the First Aid action in the combat chapter to ONLY aply for people with a Medkit available, I would have said so in a clearer fashion. Probably repeated it a couple of times as well, once on the skill and once on the First Aid section.

As it is these sections don't mentione any required equipment at all, and the description of the equipment itself is a little weak. It doesn't say I can't do it without one. It's doesn't even say I would have a penalty without one.

But like I said before, I guess it makes sense to run it like that. I was just missing it from the book.

/wolf

 

[Shiloh]

Maybe but IMO it's a little weak.
As it is these sections don't mentione any required equipment at all, and the description of the equipment itself is a little weak. It doesn't say I can't do it without one. It's doesn't even say I would have a penalty without one.

But like I said before, I guess it makes sense to run it like that. I was just missing it from the book.

/wolf

It's entirely possible to apply basic first aid for some injuries without any gear at all. You can resuscitate someone with CPR or clear an airway without needing an isolation kit. You can stop someone bleeding to death with direct pressure. Your potential results are limited without kit though, even improvised kit like a penknife and a biro tube for a tracheotomy. Lacking sterile materials is also going to nothing good for the prognosis.

I feel it's up to the ref to define the injury and apply a penalty depending on the result sought and the resources available.

 

[GhostWolf69]

Yeah... I'm desperately trying to re-learn how to role-play after all this DnD gaming.

I hear you and I agree with you. I'm just collecting arguments to fire at my players once they start to fall back into binary DnD power-munchkin-mode.

Thanks for your help.

/wolf

 

[Shiloh]

Yeah... I'm desperately trying to re-learn how to role-play after all this DnD gaming.

I hear you and I agree with you. I'm just collecting arguments to fire at my players once they start to fall back into binary DnD power-munchkin-mode.

Thanks for your help.

/wolf

Heh. Apply negative modifiers for wounds difficult to treat without gear (burns need cooling and protecting, blood loss needs fluids kits...) and positive mods for having relevant kits... Voila! Straight skill roll

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Maybe you could do something like, without a Kit you cannot "Heal" someone, but you could stabilize them, so that they don't get any worse.

 

[Xoph]

I also find the Medical section confuseing I have a doctor in the party and their doesn't seem to be much of a system to work with.

Medkits: What is in one? Which drugs? What equipment?

Medlabs: We need one, How much? What is in it?

Medic Skill: Is there really nothing between ieadiate after wounding care and surgery?

What we really need is a how to be a doctor, field medic, and guide to medical drugs, gear, and tasks. It would be a great chapter in Signs and Portents. My players are starting to try to get creative (she wants to trade her medical services accross the spinward marches) with Medicine and I am having to make a lot up... with little support from the books.

 

[Paladin]

Maybe you could do something like, without a Kit you cannot "Heal" someone, but you could stabilize them, so that they don't get any worse.

Agreed. Medkit should be a requirement, not a bonus. The lack of one is a penalty on the check and success would be holding the status quouo for anything but very minor wounds.

i.e. I need a gun to use Gun Combat, but I don't get a bonus simply for having a gun.

 

[aspqrz]

What we really need is a how to be a doctor, field medic, and guide to medical drugs, gear, and tasks. It would be a great chapter in Signs and Portents. My players are starting to try to get creative (she wants to trade her medical services accross the spinward marches) with Medicine and I am having to make a lot up... with little support from the books.

And what benefit there is in being a Doctor trained at TL/15 as opposed to one trained at, say, TL3 :shock:

Likewise, we are led to believe, by default, that there is no difference in healing rate based on Tech Level ... even without equipment ...

Think the difference between the Four Humours theory vs. the actual reality of the circulation of blood etc.

Of course, this has never ever been covered in any iteration of Traveller that I can recall (or not in anything resembling a realistic and believable way, anyway).

Phil

 

[Paladin]

What we really need is a how to be a doctor, field medic, and guide to medical drugs, gear, and tasks. It would be a great chapter in Signs and Portents. My players are starting to try to get creative (she wants to trade her medical services accross the spinward marches) with Medicine and I am having to make a lot up... with little support from the books.

And what benefit there is in being a Doctor trained at TL/15 as opposed to one trained at, say, TL3 :shock:

Likewise, we are led to believe, by default, that there is no difference in healing rate based on Tech Level ... even without equipment ...

Think the difference between the Four Humours theory vs. the actual reality of the circulation of blood etc.

Of course, this has never ever been covered in any iteration of Traveller that I can recall (or not in anything resembling a realistic and believable way, anyway).

Phil

That's why games have GMs/Referrees.

 

[cbrunish]

My comments are from a military and civilian paramedic standpoint. I CANNOT do my job with any of my medical supplies. So I would assume the medkit is required to perfom any first aid treatment. And I can perform my job 3 or 4 times without restocking my medic bag. After that I'm done. Fortunatly I restock after every call at the local hospital or go back to the station to resupply. Yeah, I still have the knowledge in assessing a pt and I might be able to state whats wrong and how to fix them but without equipment thats all I can do. I would assume the same goes for a doctor. Hope that helps.

 

[Shiloh]

My comments are from a military and civilian paramedic standpoint. I CANNOT do my job with any of my medical supplies. So I would assume the medkit is required to perfom any first aid treatment. And I can perform my job 3 or 4 times without restocking my medic bag. After that I'm done. Fortunatly I restock after every call at the local hospital or go back to the station to resupply. Yeah, I still have the knowledge in assessing a pt and I might be able to state whats wrong and how to fix them but without equipment thats all I can do. I would assume the same goes for a doctor. Hope that helps.

Great to have some input from a pro. From the first aid training I've done as an employee and martial arts instructor, I think you're defining your job as "patching someone up enough so you can get on to the next one and they won't die before someone checks on 'em". Is that fair? Because there are some (albeit limited) things I've been told you can do without gear (though gear makes those things more effective and helps remove the need to keep hands on the patient). Or is it that the training I've had is hopelessly optimistic? I'll freely confess to never having had to stop a serious bleed or give CPR.

On to your bag: what sort of size is that? Does it include bags of fluids, or are those additional and drawn from other stores?

 

[aspqrz]

What we really need is a how to be a doctor, field medic, and guide to medical drugs, gear, and tasks. It would be a great chapter in Signs and Portents. My players are starting to try to get creative (she wants to trade her medical services accross the spinward marches) with Medicine and I am having to make a lot up... with little support from the books.

And what benefit there is in being a Doctor trained at TL/15 as opposed to one trained at, say, TL3 :shock:

Likewise, we are led to believe, by default, that there is no difference in healing rate based on Tech Level ... even without equipment ...

Think the difference between the Four Humours theory vs. the actual reality of the circulation of blood etc.

Of course, this has never ever been covered in any iteration of Traveller that I can recall (or not in anything resembling a realistic and believable way, anyway).

Phil

That's why games have GMs/Referrees.

Which helps not at all if you want some consistency

Phil

 

[GhostWolf69]

Which helps not at all if you want some consistency

Phil

I call this 'DnD-sickness' and I'm trying to get rid of it. But yeah, I hear you.

/wolf