Medical Bay (aka Sick Bay) details

Morning BP,

Nice match ups for TL-12, but what about lower TLs?

The written details of the medical facilities from GT: Starships almost most match the suggestions posed by both you and alex_greene.

Thanks for the continued help.
 
Hello Golan2072,

You are very welcome, one less thing I have to think about.

Off the top of my head, most if not all the design sequences agree with you that the total stateroom tonnage includes beds, lounging areas, life support systems, food preparation/kitchen (galley) areas, dining, hygiene facilities, and internal passage ways.

Unfortunately, after looking at a lot of the deck plans created over the years staterooms do not include external passageways. One of my earlier topics was Airlocks/ship's lockers & corridors/passageways in deckplans at http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38843&highlight= discussed my findings, which is one of the things that are slowing down my design attempts and deckplan layout.

I seem to have misunderstood what you meant by having a medlab in every stateroom. I agree that the size of the medical facilities depend on the space available. On the smallest ships the medical facility is probably a medikit (Core p. 93) stored in the Ship's locker coupled a paper copy of a first aid book and/or generic medical program. The larger the ship the bigger and better equipped the medical facility. Or am I still out in a field somewhere? :lol:
 
Howdy BP,

The information is great on where to look for the medical stuff to build medical facilities and very much appreciated.

For the most part I like have the physical copy of the book, but there is the slight issue of storage space :wink: . Between the gaming books, my books (mainly science fiction), and music I pretty much have to stack stuff in neat piles on the floor.

I'm thinking that a compiled list of medical related items might be an idea for a new topic in the future.

Again thanks for the references which will be a help in creating medical facility modules.
 
Hello again alex_greene,

I'm not familiar with movie "The Day After Tomorrow" so I don't have clue about the medical facility depicted.

I'm going to have dig out either the tape or dvd of Alien to have another look at the medical bay since I don't remember what was depicted.

Das Boot's depiction is still fairly accurate for modern submarines. The main difference is that we have a little more room. :wink:
 
Howdy Golan2072,

I seem to recall that there were a couple of scenes in both the movie and series that showed a stand alone medical area. Let me check my copy of Serenity Roleplaying Game book for the deckplans. Per the book, pp. 121 through 125, Serenity was converted to a medship during the war and had an infirmary module installed in cargo hold 2, which was kept by the current owner and crew.

There is a scene that shows Kaylee recovering in the medical facility being visited by Mal. After Mal leaves he meets Simon and gives the fugitive doctor the impression that Kaylee had died. Simon rushes into the infirmary. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to search the DVDs to figure out where the scene is located.

Unfortunately, they don't, like most games, list everything.
 
Hello once again alex_greene,

Boy is this group keeping me busy. You've done an amazing job at describing what is probably carried in the way of medical support.

WWII PT boats carried at most a corpsmen/medics battlefield medical bag. As the hulls get larger a little more room was provided. On the ballastic missile boats I served on there was a space that had built in cabinets along the bulkhead over a flat surface about 6' long that worked as an exam table and desk. Below the surface area where storage drawers. There was about a three foot wide space between the table and the other bulkhead that served as a corridor. On the 'old' fast attack, USS Shark SSN-591, the corpsman's office was a medium sized broom closet. If I recall correctly the corpsman's space on a Los Angeles class SSN was maybe two feet bigger.


alex_greene said:
Often as not, that never seems enough - which is why so many free traders end up at auction, their previous crews having been killed by some weird alien bug with which they did not have the facilities to deal.

So that's why I got my Free Trader so cheap :wink: and I thought it was my haggling skills. Hold on a minute, what do you mean Smitty is melting? Use the medical program to figure out what's wrong. Just great Jonesy has had something jump out of his chest while eating in the crews mess. :shock:

Is there a doctor on board? When I get back to home port I'm going to kick the stuffing out of Smiling Sam the used spaceship dealer.

Thanks again for the help
 
snrdg121408 said:
I seem to have misunderstood what you meant by having a medlab in every stateroom. I agree that the size of the medical facilities depend on the space available. On the smallest ships the medical facility is probably a medikit (Core p. 93) stored in the Ship's locker coupled a paper copy of a first aid book and/or generic medical program. The larger the ship the bigger and better equipped the medical facility. Or am I still out in a field somewhere? :lol:
Small craft usually carry medkits. The medical facility of anything of 100 or more tons should be more than a medkit; the typical 4-stateroom scout should have about one dton (a single med-bed with ambulance-level gear?) of medical facilities, and larger ships should have more, and that's before adding real dedicated medlab or shipboard hospitals.
 
alex_greene said:
... a cryoberth is useless if the power source and backup are dead.
They are in the cyroberth as they would already be dead - and if the power is off for a week (assuming backup worked) then they probably would have other issues anyway (oxygen, heat)!

Since below TL-10 is early-stellar this is not high-tech for a starship... for pre-stellar spaceship's sure!

So the most practical solution is to go with what works, and what requires the most efficient balance of cost, space, mass and power requirements.

And as often as not, that means med tech with a cutoff maximum TL of between 8 and 9. Metal scalpels don't need batteries. Laser scalpels do.
Sounds more like an emergency med kit than a dedicated facility. This stuff is likely to be available (or at least creatable - blades/vacc suits) from the ship's locker.

The problem I see with this is it requires knowledge/skill to use any scalpel or create a sterile environment - this is were technology is going to be used... and inherently one becomes dependent on technology! Take example of a metal scalpel versus a laser one - the laser one does not require anywhere near the knowledge - of sterilization, controlling bleeding (cauterizes), or skill at controlling the cutting pressure/depth required for different tissues. It still, however, requires knowledge of where, when and how deep to cut. And if my 'battery' was dead, odds are I would know how to deal with this issue better than the affore mentioned!

Don't get me wrong - I agree with your thinking - relying on technology, especially power dependent ones, is not always a great idea! For instance, I like late model cars because they don't have 'computers' - so I've always fixed them using my senses, brains and some jury rigging. When the computer that controls the fuel/air goes - that ain't gonna be fixed on the side of the road (and I am quite experienced at repairing electronics and programming). Worse - when the battery goes its all over (well, if you're like me you have two quick chargers with you) - the car can even come to a dead stop (which can be fatal)! With older carburetor cars one could get them running without any charge.

Yet majority of cars today all suffer these ridiculous technology limitations. And, by and by, the fuel economy as measured in mpg is worse than old style (the power per gallon is better) for American cars (Europeans models actually outperform - but that is a market thing).

And when it comes to hospitals - they aren't much different! The redundancy/contingencies are based on keeping the tech functional - not on doing without. (Again knowledge is the key - and modern societies value knowledge on using tech more than knowledge on making or fixing it, much less doing without!) I suspect that the hospital, in say, a modern aircraft carrier is quite high tech and doesn't rely on lower tech (though, especially being military - it has contingencies) - and if the power fails there very well could be deaths. Likewise, a modern aircraft probably has a defibrillator (AEDs - which require power) - possibly even the kind that vocalizes directions and checks that it needs to be applied first and in what way. Yet it may, in fact, not have a giant needle full of epinephrine for doing a intracardiac injection - though that is lower tech and does not require batteries (and like the metal scalpel compared to the laser may do more harm than good without significant medical knowledge and experience).

Given that power is absolutely essential to surviving in space (for even the shortest of periods) I don't see any likelihood that low-tech solutions would be applied to medical needs - and that is ignoring the societal characteristics that would make this unlikely anyway.
 
... and any automedic using an expert program, which requires intellect program, which is illegal at law level 1 (the imperial space law level) kind of messes with the whole idea of automated ships (pilots, navs, engs, gunners).

I'd include the um Logan's Run auto/servo bodyshaper/cosmetic surgery unit as well (lasers!), Star Wars Vat regeneration tanks, etc

Then again *that* we have Pilot, Nav, Engineering, Gunner crew alternatives, (steward too with luxuries) but none for medic yep big gap. It sure is real hard designing small ships when 3 pilots (had to be the costliest one!) requirement for average crewing. Also that doing up the nostromo went *really* well (and easy!) in CT ship design, now with the 1/50t engineering requires what R drives at TL14 or whatever (grr). P.S> I want 1G 100t, 10t small craft drives, 'cause i want a 10t lifeboat, like that!
 
Howdy Maccat,

Thanks for adding to the discussion and for bring up Law levels. In at least two of the Traveller rule sets you can build automated ships but Imperial law requires a live crew person. I believe the law was mentioned in CT and T4, unfortunately I can't seem to find the text. I'll keep looking and hopefully remember to supply the information I'm so easily distracted by other things. :lol:

I see a problem with the restrictions as written since the TU has and uses or has the ability to use the restricted items. I'll have to give this some thought and maybe start a new topic.

Traveller medical units, at least in my TU, have similar capabilites to those shown in Logan's Run and Star Wars.

There is a work around to the requirements such as:

Pilot/Navigator, Navigator/Pilot, Commo/Pilot, or any similar combination.

Again thanks for joining the discussion.
 
Maccat said:
... and any automedic using an expert program, which requires intellect program, which is illegal at law level 1 (the imperial space law level) kind of messes with the whole idea of automated ships (pilots, navs, engs, gunners).
The autodoc [Core pg 95] covers this - '...traditionally exempt from laws against robotics...'

Note that in the 3I the starport is extraterritorial [Core pg 178 - though spaceports could be a problem.

As for the crew requirements [Core pg 113]] - we still have minimum of 1 pilot. 3 makes sense for 24 hour operations - but computer should actually handle normal situations. And dedicated medic isn't need at all on small ships (1/120 passengers).
 
Afternoon Golan2072,

I agree that as ships get larger and range further from a world for longer periods the medkit gets upgraded with more medical equipment. Medkits containing the basic stuff (band aids, OTC anitbiotics, medical tape, etc.) are dispersed throughout the ship. In addition to the medkits there will be stretchers palced in different location to transport patients. These items are in addition to a compact medical facility something like I described in my earlier post to alex_greene. A the ships get larger the medical facility will be upgraded to a small clinic and on the largest ships, especially liners and warships, will have hospitals.

Dedicating space to medical facilities on 100+ dton ships is a good idea, however having every stateroom with a medical facility is, at lest in my OTU, going overboard.

Thanks again for the reply and food for thought.
 
Afternoon to ya BP,

Yep, military facilities try to use the latest and greatest practices and technology to keep their personnel alive and in good health. Digital thermomters are pretty much the norm, but they have as a backup the old style ones too.
 
snrdg121408 said:
Dedicating space to medical facilities on 100+ dton ships is a good idea, however having every stateroom with a medical facility is, at lest in my OTU, going overboard.
Under my deckplan houserules, there isn't a medical facility in each and every stateroom, but rather as part of the crew area, which is subsumed in the stateroom tonnage (the stateroom itself is just 2 tons; the rest is common area, corridors and life-support gear going elsewhere on the deckplan).
 
Evening Golan2072,

Thanks for the clarification, blast I think the smoke detector has gone off announcing that I have a well done meal :lol:
 
snrdg121408 said:
Evening all,

Which book gives text details on medical facilities like the medical bay? Scouts in a couple of ship designs shows a 4 dton Medical bay but I have not been able to get more details. Mercenary has some text, but not enough to tell me what is in the medical bay. Can one of you kind souls help me out please?


What is that medical bay all about?



_________________
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snrdg121408 said:
WWII PT boats carried at most a corpsmen/medics battlefield medical bag. As the hulls get larger a little more room was provided. A the ballastic missile boats I served on was a space that had built in cabinets along the bulkhead over a flat surface about 6' long that worked as an exam table and desk. Below the surface area where storage drawers. There was about a three foot wide space between the table and the other bulkhead that served as a corridor. On the 'old' fast attack, USS Shark SSN-591, the corpsman's office was a medium sized broom closet. If I recall correctly the corpsman's space on a Los Angeles class SSN was maybe two feet bigger.

Boy you guys in the Navy had it made. My battalion aid station for an artillery battalion consisted of a 2 1/2 ton troop carrier with lighting, equipment and stretchers. If I had more than 3 pts there were placed outside under the camo netting in stretchers. But then my medics (and myself) would be sleeping on the ground. The army always gets screwed!! :lol:
 
Hello nicole0391,

nicole0391 said:
What is that medical bay all about?

If I am correct a lab/medical bay, medical bay, or med bay is a medical
facility able to treat injured Traveller adventures. In most of the other
Traveller variants the facility is normally called a sickbay. Unfortunately,
neither MgT Scouts or Mercenary gives any descrioption of what a
medical bay is, however Ccouts does list dtons and cost. Thanks for
asking the question and for joining in on the discussion.
 
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