Medic DMs

[BP]

...I'm a little confused by the blurb you gave us regarding your rule because by my understanding, any damage left over after a characteristic is reduced to zero simply goes on to the next characteristic. ...

Yep - but when 2 characteristics are zero, one is unconscious. So I am saying the remaining damage can be applied to the third stat over time instead of in the same round. The exception would be if the damage was greater than the remaining stat... then the last stat would be zero, and the character would be dead (though I have a delayed death rule that could take effect as well).

Unless the brain is obliterated, death is not instantaneous - the body can be frozen and drastic medical action taken later - even in the event of a hit by a rocket or such. Of course, I have rules for being blasted by ship sized weapons (or crushed by a starship) and such.

This, of course, doesn't directly address bleeding out or critical, low damage, but potentially fatal wounds (like a gushing artery).

Yes - I have given this a lot of thought, and am almost happy with my design - but it still needs refinement and testing before I share the full details...

 

[GamerDude]

I operate in much the same way at this point. I've been done with games like GURPS for a while--too much is done for "realism" or the simulation. I'd rather have a simple, fast, playable system.

That's why in my GURPS games I've left out the hit location and all that jazz... way too much for the level of detail the D&D munchkins I tend to get at my table. GRIN

 

[alex_greene]

Check p. 75 closely, particularly the section on recovery. I think that section does cover this kind of situation already, although without a copy of the core rulebook immediately to hand I cannot yet cite the exact rule.

 

[BP]

Check p. 75 closely, particularly the section on recovery. I think that section does cover this kind of situation already, although without a copy of the core rulebook immediately to hand I cannot yet cite the exact rule.

Nope - it covers recovery, reduced recovery, first aid and surgery - but not critical wounds nor delayed injury. There is no official mechanic for that I believe...

 

[alex_greene]

The closest it gets is the Natural Healing section, which basically covers the process of recovery from serious injury with no medical treatment nearby:-

A seriously wounded character only regains characteristic points equal to his Endurance Dm per day of rest, which means that the character may never heal naturally and will even get worse if his Endurance DM is currently negative.

Basically, if the character's Endurance DM is negative, without medical treatment he loses his DM worth of characteristic pointe per day even at rest.

Also, in the prior paragraph:-

Characters with a low Endurance DM (quite possibly from injury) may degrade (lose more characteristic points) over time if they are unlucky or cannot (or will not) rest.

This isn't on a time scale of minutes, but it's there: a negative Endurance DM causes further characteristic loss unless treated.

Oh, also the book states that a character is seriously wounded if he has sustained at least 1 point of characteristic loss due to injury in all three physical characteristics. Someone with a hale and hearty Str 10 Dex 9 End 12 could theoretically be "seriously wounded" if he was reduced to Str 9 Dex 8 End 11 ...

Still, you do get the feeling that you need a Golden Hour rule here, don't you? Carry on ...

 

[BP]

Yep - those points have all been mentioned (not that there is any harm being restated).

The part that says Characters with a low Endurance DM (quite possibly from injury) may degrade (lose more characteristic points) over time if they are unlucky or cannot (or will not) rest. is just putting into words what the mechanics of 1d6 +End DM (unlucky roles with negative DM this will be negative) for resting characters, and 1 + End DM (negative DM more than 1) for active, non-resting characters can result in.

As stated, the mechanics are pretty good - they just lack specific handling of critical, but non-massive wounds, short term time extended wounds and handling non-instant death during combat.

 

[apoc527]

Or even after a fight. I can get shot three or four times and have two characteristic points left total, but as long as an ambulance shows up sometime in the next morning, I'm in no danger of death. That is another area that mortal wounds would address.

I think that you should be degrading every hour until you receive first aid, then you'd only degrade every day. Surgery should be required to heal mortal wounds.

 

[BP]

Note: surgery is required for serious injuries (*one point or more off each characteristic).

Of course, this presents a problem with the natural healing of serious wound listed above the surgery entry...

I took this to mean that natural healing doesn't occur for serious wounds until after surgery - though natural deteriation could. I suspect this is what was meant, but the wording and exception handling are pretty open to interpretation and contradicting without clarification.

Note: pg 37 covers characteristics being intrinsically zero (as from aging) - with 'Injury Crisis' rule. It also has an Injury Table for char gen. Normal combat damage doesn's seem to account for these types of more permanent injuries...

 

[apoc527]

Actually, I think serious wounds prevent you from benefitting from medical care. You could still heal naturally, but if you have 0 End, you'll just die in a few days.

I'm going to work up a few variants of the mortally wounded concept and post it here later.

 

[alex_greene]

A seriously wounded character requires immediate surgery if he is to receive benefits of further healing.

First Aid used to stabilise would prevent further characteristic losses, but surgery would have to be done to ensure the character's recovery.

 

[apoc527]

Here's my take on it all (with design notes):

Medical House Rules

A seriously wounded character loses his current Endurance DM in characteristic points each hour until he is treated with a successful Medic check to stabilize serious wounds. This check does not heal damage like a normal First Aid check, but prevents the character from worsening every hour. A First Aid check may be made immediately before or after a stabilize serious wounds check.

A patient who is unable to rest while seriously wounded will exacerbate his seriously wounded condition and take 1d6-Endurance DM damage at the end of the day, which may quickly put him into a mortally wounded state.

Medic Task: Stabilize serious wounds: Dexterity, 1-6 minutes, Average (+0). The patient will now be able to heal naturally (which may still result in death).

Add to last paragraph, page 74:

A character is considered mortally wounded if he has lost more than half of all of his physical characteristics. As soon as one of his physical characteristics is restored above half damage, no matter how, he is no longer mortally wounded.

Note: This may appear to unfairly penalize tough characters who spread their damage around, however, seriously wounded already does that, and this is just a worse form of being seriously wounded. And any difficulty in stabilizing heavily damaged tough guys compared to weenies is completely outweighed by the fact that you have to compare totally different levels of damage. The weenie who takes 15 damage total and is mortally wounded can’t be compared to the tough guy who has taken 15 damage and isn’t even seriously wounded. If one wanted to adjust for this, apply the victim’s undamaged Endurance DM to the Medic’s task check.

Add after first paragraph, pg 75:

Mortally wounded characters who are somehow not unconscious are unable to significantly move and lose their significant action in combat. Additionally, mortally wounded characters lose an additional physical characteristic point (determined randomly if necessary) every minute until they die or receive medical treatment. Mortally wounded characters never heal naturally.

Add to Medical Treatment, First Aid section, pg 75:

Mortally wounded characters die quickly without receiving first aid. To effectively staunch a mortal wound, a medic must bring the mortally wounded character to the seriously wounded or wounded state using the First Aid task under Medic. Otherwise, the mortally wounded character continues to lose characteristic points every minute. Note that the first aid check result takes effect after the time required, which is normally 1-6 minutes. Thus, it may be necessary to rush the process, taking the -1 DM for moving up on the Timing Table. Mortally wounded characters will never survive surgery—it is necessary to stabilize them to the seriously wounded state first. Certain types of technology, including Fast Drug or most kinds of cryoberths, will automatically stabilize the character, but do not heal the damage—the character simply gains time. Attempting to staunch mortal damage without the proper equipment is at least a Difficult (-2 DM) task.

Optional: Instead of an EDU based Medic check, make Staunch mortal damage a Dexterity based Medic check, but otherwise the same. This means that someone with artificial Medic skill from a computer is able to learn how to fix up a wounded character, but when presented with a traumatic wound, is completely flabbergasted. (After all, it’s basically quick field surgery.)

Clarification: Surgery requires 1-6 hours per check and is a Dexterity-based Medic skill check. Emergency surgery in the field is usually a Difficult task (-2 DM). Surgery without the proper tools is often impossible.

 

[BP]

A seriously wounded character requires immediate surgery if he is to receive benefits of further healing.

First Aid used to stabilise would prevent further characteristic losses, but surgery would have to be done to ensure the character's recovery.

Note, the rules from pg 75, state first aid (applied within the hour) can restore points so character is no longer seriously wounded, as implied by the surgery text.

The text states surgery is required for serious wounds, but also states natural healing can occur at a reduced (or deteriorating) rate.

 

[mrfingle]

The thing to remember is that anything that makes combat more gritty and realistic will kill your characters more frequently. That may be fine if they are happy to generate and replace characters regularly but may get frustrating if their mortality rate shoots through the roof.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making things as realistic as possible, but anything that increases the likelihood, no matter how small, of the PC dying has a significant impact on the game. Apart from your main, recurring protagonist, the GM's 'characters' are disposable, the PCs aren't.

 

[alex_greene]

The thing to remember is that anything that makes combat more gritty and realistic will kill your characters more frequently. That may be fine if they are happy to generate and replace characters regularly but may get frustrating if their mortality rate shoots through the roof.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making things as realistic as possible, but anything that increases the likelihood, no m,atter how small, of the PC dying has a significant impact on the game. Apart from your main, recurring protagonist, the GM's 'characters' are disposable, the PCs aren't.

The second or third incarnation around is generally the first character to survive - and that only by the simple expedient of never getting into battles in the first place.

 

[mrfingle]

The second or third incarnation around is generally the first character to survive - and that only by the simple expedient of never getting into battles in the first place.

Tell me about it. The calling cry of my usual Spycraft group is "...It's SPYcraft, not SHOOTYcraft..."