Magicians of Dessi rock

[Anonymous]

I was making up some PCs for a convention demo last night based on Flight from the Dark and I found that the Magicians of Dessi are very cool. I have seen some people complain about them but except at the higher levels, they make excellent PCs.

The concept was to make a Magician masqurading as a pilgrim. He was not only a decent fighter thanks to the powerful wizard staff but he had very subtle magics of Prophecy and Enchantment. Not only that but he uses his WP to power the magic rather than Endurance.

I think the end result for a 5th level PC is wonderful

 

[SableWyvern]

The player in my group with a Dessi made it to his first session last week. At level 6, he had no problems holding his own with a level 8 group.

He used elementalism (air) to assist the group fleeing from a horde of Ice Barbarians, had a Restoration potion handy for a PC who had been poisoned, and held his own both in melee and ranged combat. He's also working up some Willpower potions for himself and the group's Kai Lord.

 

[Skyman]

The Magician PC for my Flight From the Dark adventure seems to have the best damage dealing potential of anyone, including the Kai and Sommerlund Knight. He'll be relatively fragile, but that's what meat shields are for! :wink: When facing a tough enemy like the Gourgaz, I'm guessing he'll be essential.

 

[Anonymous]

The dessi is excellent at levels 10 and below. It is only after level 10, when everyone else starts getting stronger versions of class abilitites (words of power, primal screams, magnakai stuff, etc) that the dessi takes a brutal fall back. However, this will be amended soon, once the shianti sorceror class is finally in our clutchy little claws...

 

[August]

I'm not sure I would agree. The Dessi get something at higher levels that makes them very much worthy of competing with other classes; more Willpower. Their magical abilities are potent enough with a constant stream of Willpower, as are their martial attacks with the Wizard's Staff, a legacy of their bygone past.

I admit they do not get as vibrant an expansion as other classes, but that was also an intention design consideration. They are more elegant, simply growing in might rather than diversifying.

Still, people will likely adore the Vakeros if they are looking for new and varied abilities with each level.

-A

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed, all that extra 'mana' so to speak gives him alot of versatility- and unlike the brother of the crystal star, he doesn't have to hurt himself to cast.

And bloody hell, as a GM, I get to have alot of fun coming up with 'creative' interpretations for Elementalism...

 

[simjimm]

Oops, the above post was me...

 

[Anonymous]

Thats true august; in fact, the dessi does also get his psychic abilities, and is the only other class apart from a kai who can hold his own in psychic combat, whereas the brotherhood, and the others, are deadmeat if they come up against a psychic monster (especially with no willpower, they have 0 buffer).

However, the fact of the matter is, the dessi's choice of abilities is the same at level 20, that it was at level 1. Also, while willpower does increase, I have to say that in my opinion the dessi's power does not. A lvl 20 brotherhood mage will do more damage per attack with Tier 1 lightning hand (40 pts dmg/attk 4 attks per round), at the cost of 1 endurance only /attk. The dessi cannot match that at level20; his staff remains at 32 pts of damage max, at 4 will power/attk. And this is without taking powerwords into account, nor any of the incredibly powerful shielding spells the brothers get.

You did an excellent job with the dessi class august, just some constructive opinions and views. I don't suppose you could give us even a few tasty tidbits about the ss, and how it will be different? Will it at least have greater magics? :?:

 

[August]

I can't really comment on the Shianti Sorcerer, but I will say that yes, Greater Magics will be made available. There is some argument (I am sure) that such things should only be possible with Shianti blood or the Moonstone, but I decided to make them available and let Games Masters limit them if they wish.

Better to give you the toys and let you create your own ways to play with them than withhold them entirely, in my opinion.

-A

 

[Anonymous]

I can't really comment on the Shianti Sorcerer, but I will say that yes, Greater Magics will be made available. There is some argument (I am sure) that such things should only be possible with Shianti blood or the Moonstone, but I decided to make them available and let Games Masters limit them if they wish.

Better to give you the toys and let you create your own ways to play with them than withhold them entirely, in my opinion.

-A

Sounds GREAT! Cool.

I do have a question though I suspect you can't answer it. How will you reconcile it with the Grey Star series as it seems GS has to use the moonstone for most of the Greater Magicks?

Actually I think it would be interesting to require Shianti blood for the greater magicks, it could create quite the interesting villain.

Still, I also think it will be fun to play as a Shianti Wizard without those requirements. Perhaps a requirement to be Shianti however? How would one be a Shianti Wizard before the Arrival of Grey Star?

 

[Skyman]

Well, you could make your shianti wizards replace Grey Star. Many people (myself included) are doing games where people play through the main series using their own Kai (and other characters). Why not do the same with the Grey Star series?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks august, thats great news. And guest, the author of the grey star series (ian someone I think) had to curtail the series to four books only; thus he had grey star use the moonstone to boost his powers and let playres play with greater magiks in the last book.

IMO, had the series gone on longer, as it was supposed to, grey star would have worked his way upto the greater magiks, much like lone wolf worked his way up to magnakai/grandmaster.

 

[Eternalknight]

Ian Page.

 

[parvatiquinta]

However, the fact of the matter is, the dessi's choice of abilities is the same at level 20, that it was at level 1.

But the Dessi's abilities are much more versatile than the Brotherhood wizard's. Or at least, they look like so IMHO.
I am a bit disappointed with some descriptions, in fact (especially Alchemy - Grey Star could really do a lot of things with it), I find the listed uses too few than what they could have, but I'm sure I'll come up with some more fairly quickly.

Also, while willpower does increase, I have to say that in my opinion the dessi's power does not. A lvl 20 brotherhood mage will do more damage per attack with Tier 1 lightning hand (40 pts dmg/attk 4 attks per round), at the cost of 1 endurance only /attk. The dessi cannot match that at level20; his staff remains at 32 pts of damage max, at 4 will power/attk.

Why 32 damage max?
He can spend 5 Willpower to inflict 5d6 damage in a ranged attack. (uhm, I wonder if that +2 to damage applies to this, that would lead to said max 32 points). :?
But in melee combat, (and since we're talking about max damage, let's assume a really powerful mage), a Magician of Dessi with both Strength and Charisma 18 can inflict, at the cost of 5 Willpower, 5d6+30, that is max 60 damage per attack. And there's the possibility of "other modifiers" (Alether potions, etc.), which wouldn't affect the lightning hand.
Ok, he has to spend a fair amount of Willpower to do that... but a wounded wizard has less Endurance to spend for his spells, while the Dessi does not suffer from this. And the Magician can achieve such a threatening blow well before his wizardly brother.

Of course, if I were to have a Magician against a Brotherhood wizard for any reason, I'd blast the wizard in Psychic Combat...

 

[columbob]

a Magician of Dessi with both Strength and Charisma 18 can inflict, at the cost of 5 Willpower, 5d6+30, that is max 60 damage per attack.

Where does that +30 come from anyways?


I was wondering if the Dessi had to expend at least 1 point of willpower to use their wizard's staff in melee, just like Grey Star. The rules are a bit vague and don't mention compulsory expenditure of Willpower points, they just say that in melee, the Magician can spend up to his charisma mod. +1 (min. of 2 points) in Willpower each time he successfully strikes an opponent, to multiply the damage by that many points.

Also, I haven't seen it, so I suspect that the Magician of Dessi don't add their base magical damage to their melee attacks, correct?

 

[parvatiquinta]

Where does that +30 come from anyways?

[edited after reading the paragraph over again]
I thought, since Strength bonus and magical bonus for weapons are usually multiplied every time damage is multiplied, that this was possible in this case, too.
But, on second thought, I rather think not, as the example should suggest.

So, we have 5d6+8, for a maximum of 38 damage, at 5 Willpower.

I was wondering if the Dessi had to expend at least 1 point of willpower to use their wizard's staff in melee, just like Grey Star.

Now that'd be an interesting question, but if he had the rules should mention it, shouldn't they?

Also, I haven't seen it, so I suspect that the Magician of Dessi don't add their base magical damage to their melee attacks, correct?

That's what I thought. After all, the Staff's magical properties let him wield the Staff with his Magical Combat Skill, that is equal to a fighter's Combat Skill.

 

[SableWyvern]

A Dessi mage certainly (by the rules) doesn't have to spend any willopwer to attack in melee. In this instance, he is effectively striking with a normal quarterstaff (with an improved critical range and multiplier, at higher levels). Which makes sense -- there's no reason the staff should cease to have the ability to hurt if it isn't "powered up". It's still hard.

 

[Anonymous]

Column, sadly no, the dessi cannot add their bmd whilst fighting with their staves. Interesting idea though. <grin>

And no, no expenditure of willpower required if you don't want it too.
Oh and yes, that would indeed cap out to a max of 38 pts of damage (still lower than brotherhood at higher levels); however, it would be rare dessi with an 18 str. A player would be much better off boosting intelligence; since it gives bonus on attack rolls.

 

[parvatiquinta]

Yes, I was misled by my initial assumption that you could multiply that bonus damage. Then a Dessi would have plenty of reason to boost his Strength in a tough fight.
Adding the bmd would really make him a nasty foe. But that should come at a price, like an expenditure of, say, 2 Willpower to add the bmd? And you can still spend Willpower to multiply the base damage, but that has to be paid in addition, otherwise it'd sound way too much to me.

Anyway, power doesn't just lie in figures. A Dessi can be more versatile than a Brotherhood mage, though it requires a good GM because many of his powers (like Elementalism) are pretty tough to handle if you are not experienced with broad powers, IMHO. But this is just a guess, and none of my players has chosen a Dessi until now (well, we are pretty centered in Northern Magnamund). I think I'm not going to house-rule the Dessi sheer strength until I've played it thoroughly, if I'm going to do any work at all, I'm more interested in said versatility anyway.

Oh, how I wish I'll play a character in Lone Wolf anytime soon.

 

[Anonymous]

"Anyway, power doesn't just lie in figures. A Dessi can be more versatile than a Brotherhood mage, though it requires a good GM because many of his powers (like Elementalism) are pretty tough to handle if you are not experienced with broad powers, IMHO. "

Thas an excellent point. Magi of dessi are an excellent class, but to really enjoy playing one as a player, you require a flexible and creative gm.