Low PL games and the Shadows.

[Locutus9956]

Soooo... Shadow fighter shields dont work vs anti fighter guns, and dont work vs enemy fighters in dogfights (and they have a sucky +0 to dogfights?).

So BASICALLY, what they work against, is stray shots from main weapons? Whats the point? Shadow fighters have a 2" attack range so cant attack ships without getting shot by antifighter (which ignores their shields as far as I can tell) and attacking fighters will pretty much always choose to dogfight given the choice and given shadows fighters generally limited numbers they are never going to survive to do much useful. In fact the only time I can ever see them being vaguely useful is vs ISA or Drakh (and in both those cases your probably better off just taking as many scouts as you can with their dodge ignoring cannon of doom)

 

[Da Boss]

Yep - rubbish isn't it - check out the thread "Shadow Fighters - Just Why" and see thats how they are supposed to be :roll:

ah well

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I think it makes sense that shields don't work in a dogfight, in the same way that you don't use the weapon stats in a dogfight either - it should all be taken into account in the dogfight score. Considering that the shadow fighter has a dogfight of 0 though, it does make me wonder just how piss-poor it would be without the shields... -1? -2?

 

[DrSeltsam]

IMHO there will be no change in campaign games with Shadows ( from e1 to e2 ). Every games below PL battle will be a difficult - regarding getting a suitable and comparable fleet together.

Don't even want to think about Patrol level fights ... :roll:

Is there still the "double RR point" rule in the fleet list ? This was making the only patrol choice a real pain in the a$$ ... and im not even sure if it is legal to use a "flight" only fleet list ?

Sorry for the questions but still no rulebook/fleetbook here in Germany ...

 

[Da Boss]

IMHO there will be no change in campaign games with Shadows ( from e1 to e2 ). Every games below PL battle will be a difficult - regarding getting a suitable and comparable fleet together.

Don't even want to think about Patrol level fights ... :roll:

Is there still the "double RR point" rule in the fleet list ? This was making the only patrol choice a real pain in the a$$ ... and im not even sure if it is legal to use a "flight" only fleet list ?

Sorry for the questions but still no rulebook/fleetbook here in Germany ...

Totally agree and yep pay double for fighters as well as ships - but don't worry its all apparently fair and balanced

 

[DrSeltsam]

Totally agree and yep pay double for fighters as well as ships - but don't worry its all apparently fair and balanced

Thanks for the clarification

I will test the Shadow to see if there is any "big" surprise or something i missed that gives a advantage in low PL levels or even mid PL level ... but ... let me describe it this way: i would be surprised :roll:

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Does not sound as though shadow fighters are a good buy

Suppose it can be fixed locally by house rules to allow the shield to work in a dogfight or anti fighter, OR put up the dogfight score.

Cpt K

 

[zulu01]

The Shadow Scout is almost like the Hand of Death in the games I have seen, saw 8 of them tear a Narn Ka'Bin'Tak-class Super Dreadnought in half over the course of 2 turns, they only lost 1 Scout and another was on its way out.

I just don't see it. The gun is only 8", which means to fire, you will always be shot at the reduced stealth of 4. All it takes is one decent skirmish ship with beams (say a Thentus frigate) to do 7 points of damage, then you just sit there for two turns taking it. And with self repair of only 1 (not 1 D6, just 1) you will be dead before you ever get a chance to fire.

And with so few attack dice, the ship isn't even close to the firepower put out by other ships. Compare it to a Demos or Rongoth - at skirmish level they out-shoot the scout by a huge margin.

Nope, it seems lame by comparison.

 

[Sulfurdown]

I still am waiting for my Fleet Book, does the Shadow capital ships still get their 1/90+Double speed special movement rules?

 

[zulu01]

Yes, they are still able to move as before. Speed is increased on the capitol ships.

 

[Greg Smith]

I just don't see it. The gun is only 8", which means to fire, you will always be shot at the reduced stealth of 4. All it takes is one decent skirmish ship with beams (say a Thentus frigate) to do 7 points of damage, then you just sit there for two turns taking it.

Except something has to take down its shields first. And stealth 4 means the Thentus still has a 50% chance of not seeing it. Even then the beam can be dodged.

It does have less firepower than other ships at Raid. But it is a scout and it is one of the most manueverable ships in the game. Not to mention it gets all of the inherent Shadow bonuses, like +1 vs stealth and hyperspace mastery.

 

[DrSeltsam]

Maybe someone can help me because i don't get it ...

In our last campaign we had more than one battle on PL level: Patrol or Skirmish. Regarding the different PL levels in scenarios: What would be a fleet you can build for a 3pt or 5pt Patrol level fleet that is
a.) legal and
b.) competitive ?

And please don't tell me "oh, the Ancients do not fight on that conditions!" :roll: - if the rules do not allow me to build a competitive fleet i will loose the strategic target and that is no fun at all. Period.

Even without using the breakdown to get more ship i would have to face multiple good low level choice like :
Chronos (EA with turret),
Torotha (Minbari with turret),
almost every Drazi ship and the best of the Narn navy :roll:,
the Drakh light raider selections,
the Gaim (e-mines in turrets with raaaange, many fighters!),
the BlueStar+Nolo'Tar(ISA low budgets with turret for the Nolo'Tar)
only to mention a few possible opponents.

I will be thankful for any useable advice !
Thanks in advance

 

[DrSeltsam]

Hmmm ...

maybe nobody wants to answer or nobody has an answer ... whatever.

Hopefully someone already has the rulebook ( got information that he 2e books finally arrived yesterday in germany and will be shipped to customers this week ... it's really a long way across the channel :roll: ) and can give me an answer to this :

Is it legal ( under 2e rules ) to run a game with only fighters ?

I ask because i do not see any other possible combination for a 3pt Patrol level fight.

Thanks

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I can't see anything in either book that says you can't...

 

[Da Boss]

I would think so - there are a few scenarios you can not win if you are playing fighters - Planetfall I thnk and Recon Run specically states fighters can not scan but suppose could just wipe out the enemy........

 

[DrSeltsam]

@Lord David the Denied & Da Boss

Thanks for the information !

 

[Lord David the Denied]

But of course. Think nothing of it, good sir...

 

[Da Boss]

think nothing of it - be interesting to see how your game goes if you do fight such a scenario as it may contribute to the debate on Shadow Fighters elsewhere on the board.