LotR/M-E RuneQuest
- Thread starter Sigtrygg
- Start date
Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
I'm not a fan of Middle Earth personally.
It bugs me a little when they make a big deal about Tolkien, especially as he wasn't the first published Fantasy novelist.
The Hobbit was first published in 1937, whereas the first 13 Conan tales were printed between 1932 and 1934 and if you think about it the first "Sword & Sorcery" tale was Homers "The Odyssey".
I prefer Howards tales of Hyboria to Tolkiens wafflings about Middle-Earth any day (waits with baited breath for abuse Lol).
It bugs me a little when they make a big deal about Tolkien, especially as he wasn't the first published Fantasy novelist.
The Hobbit was first published in 1937, whereas the first 13 Conan tales were printed between 1932 and 1934 and if you think about it the first "Sword & Sorcery" tale was Homers "The Odyssey".
I prefer Howards tales of Hyboria to Tolkiens wafflings about Middle-Earth any day (waits with baited breath for abuse Lol).
:twisted:
Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
Rurik said:
Nice to know you know someone that old (other than me) to find that out.
According to tradition, Pisistratus, the Tyrant of Athens, ordered the writing down of "standard" versions of two lengthy orally-circulating epic poems, The Iliad and The Odyssey.
They are credited to the legendary bard called Homer, which had achieved their basic forms during the 8th century.
The poems pretty much formed the basis of the Western literary tradition known as Fantasy . . .
The Odyssey, in particular, contains almost all of the standard elements of a fantasy adventure: a wandering hero, an encounter with a seductive sorceress, the outwitting of monsters, and a battle to save the hero's beloved.
Oh, and at the time they were considered legend . . . . . . . .
Tolkien was an excellent writer and his books are a good read on their own. But the excessive use of creatures like elves, orks and dwarfs have damaged the fantasy genre IMO. (and the fantasy RP genre too)
I do something against this in not allowing any Tolkien races in my games.
I do something against this in not allowing any Tolkien races in my games.
Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
All very sensible, by keeping them rare you keep them special.
Lieutenant Rasczak said:
For me, Tolkien's magic was in the depth of his creation and the sheer amount of detail behind it all that lent it an air of autheticity. I'm not bothered by the elves, orcs, and dwarves in Tolkien - they were not so cliched back then - but I do shun them in current fantasy because they've been so abused by others.
That said, I don't really think late third age Middle Earth makes for great roleplaying because there is so little civilization. If I was to play a MERP, I would select a time period when the Witch King of angmar was active and Arnor was not destroyed - that way there would be many more cities, people, enemies, and scope for adventure, IMO.
Cobra
GbajiTheDeceiver
Mongoose
First Age, all the way. The more primitive (in human terms) setting, together with the cultural clash, might be almost made for RQ.
King Amenjar
Mongoose
Cardolan. Funny, when I used to use MERP stuff for RQ, I advanced the time it was set in so there was no more Arnor or Angmar...HyrumOWC said:
Tolkien may not be great literature, but all things considered, his writing was still far superior to the dime novel pulp turned out by Robert E Howard. That said, there's a time and a place for pulp, complete with stealing gems from idols, warrior women in chainmail bikinis and all of that stuff. There's also a time and a place for elves and orcs.
Utgardloki
Mongoose
I think the biggest problem with using Runequest rules for Middle-Earth, is how to create a character like Aragorn or Borimir, who can slay hundreds of orcs?
In D&D, a high level fighter with Two Weapon Fighting and Great Cleave can treat orcs as terrain, leaving a pile of dead bodies around him (although eventually the orcs would be able to overwhelm him, as they eventually did to Borimir). In Runequest, it seems that either the orcs would quickly dispatch even a great hero, or else the hero would have to have Parry and Dodge skills so far up the wazoo that the orcs would never be able to touch him.
Is there a way to create characters in Runequest who would perform like they did in Lord of the Rings?
In D&D, a high level fighter with Two Weapon Fighting and Great Cleave can treat orcs as terrain, leaving a pile of dead bodies around him (although eventually the orcs would be able to overwhelm him, as they eventually did to Borimir). In Runequest, it seems that either the orcs would quickly dispatch even a great hero, or else the hero would have to have Parry and Dodge skills so far up the wazoo that the orcs would never be able to touch him.
Is there a way to create characters in Runequest who would perform like they did in Lord of the Rings?
I don't think they make such a big deal about Tolkien because they think he was the first "fantasy author" but because he brought fantasy to the general population and not just a niche group like Howard (weird tales and all). I think the general masses skip Conan etc. because of the gore and lack of characterization. It was Pulp fiction at it's best and not something you read to the kiddies before bed. I like Howard's adventure stories and I like Tolkeins characters. Conan type roleplaying adventures are easy to do. Middle Earth adventures, if done to be Tolkeinesque, are much more difficult, but to me, more satisfying. Plus I just love a world that rich in background.
SmegmaLord
Mongoose
My RPG life grew up in the shadow of Tolkein, but I never 'got round' to reading it till about 3 years ago, and god did it bore the pants of me!
I think in context of when it was written and the level of literary awareness in his audience it would have been a smash.
But in the modern context its slow, rambling and needs a good editor. Don't tell me about all the lovely trees and flowers get on with hitting stuff...amd DONT get me started on Tom Bombardil!!
The fact that a major plot lines resolve completely and then he goes back in time and resolves another was a construction error, only fixed convincingly in the movies. I couldn't forgive him for dealing with the Balrog and Gandalf in about half a page. I have this conversation regularly with people who say, no that sections enormous...nope...look it up!
Its almost "grrr went the Balrog, though shalt not pass said Gandalf, whip grrr said the balrog, flame or arnor said gandalf waving his sword, grr went the balrog slashing with his sword, bridge breaks, balrog falls, whips his foot he falls saying flee you fools"....
My problem was that he has dated badly.
I think his books stands as a testiment to the complexity that a fantasy world can contain, an alternative British Mythology was his intention (and its nothing to do with the war and the rise of the Nazis either) whilst Howard is good it is far more square jawed and gritty, not mythic and beautific.
I read the book to get more backgound to answer those nagging questions as to who, why, when...but it didn't resolve any of them and I just couldn't bear to drag myself through the academic tomes of the Silmarilion et al (Gridnol son of Agmar son of Brian cousin of gwendolin etc..)
I've played MERP and think this is a good enough game for the heroic nature of M-E! DO we really need to convert MRQ/Glorantha!
But then again I'm being unfair as you've paid your money and you're free to do whatever you like with it....
...ramble over!
CHRIS
I think in context of when it was written and the level of literary awareness in his audience it would have been a smash.
But in the modern context its slow, rambling and needs a good editor. Don't tell me about all the lovely trees and flowers get on with hitting stuff...amd DONT get me started on Tom Bombardil!!
The fact that a major plot lines resolve completely and then he goes back in time and resolves another was a construction error, only fixed convincingly in the movies. I couldn't forgive him for dealing with the Balrog and Gandalf in about half a page. I have this conversation regularly with people who say, no that sections enormous...nope...look it up!
Its almost "grrr went the Balrog, though shalt not pass said Gandalf, whip grrr said the balrog, flame or arnor said gandalf waving his sword, grr went the balrog slashing with his sword, bridge breaks, balrog falls, whips his foot he falls saying flee you fools"....
My problem was that he has dated badly.
I think his books stands as a testiment to the complexity that a fantasy world can contain, an alternative British Mythology was his intention (and its nothing to do with the war and the rise of the Nazis either) whilst Howard is good it is far more square jawed and gritty, not mythic and beautific.
I read the book to get more backgound to answer those nagging questions as to who, why, when...but it didn't resolve any of them and I just couldn't bear to drag myself through the academic tomes of the Silmarilion et al (Gridnol son of Agmar son of Brian cousin of gwendolin etc..)
I've played MERP and think this is a good enough game for the heroic nature of M-E! DO we really need to convert MRQ/Glorantha!
But then again I'm being unfair as you've paid your money and you're free to do whatever you like with it....
...ramble over!
CHRIS
SmegmaLord
Mongoose
Yeh I shoud get out more.
Its not that I don't actually despise his work, its just with all the hype and the celebrity his writing has garnered I was simply dissapointed.
Rule of life #211 "Don't beleive the hype"
I feel today that his impact is greater than the work deserves!
ANy better?....probably not eh!
CHRIS
Its not that I don't actually despise his work, its just with all the hype and the celebrity his writing has garnered I was simply dissapointed.
Rule of life #211 "Don't beleive the hype"
I feel today that his impact is greater than the work deserves!
ANy better?....probably not eh!
CHRIS
Utgardloki
Mongoose
I agree that Tolkein books are not light reading. He's not Piers Anthony or Robert Asprin.
But when it comes to fantasy worlds, I have to say that Tolkein's Middle Earth is the most vividly imagined one I've come across. Very few authors have been able to create a world in such detail, where I feel that I could wander off the edge of the map and find new and interesting things.
I can certainly see different opinions on this issue. Myself, it depends on my mood. But I just wanted to stand up for JRR.
But when it comes to fantasy worlds, I have to say that Tolkein's Middle Earth is the most vividly imagined one I've come across. Very few authors have been able to create a world in such detail, where I feel that I could wander off the edge of the map and find new and interesting things.
I can certainly see different opinions on this issue. Myself, it depends on my mood. But I just wanted to stand up for JRR.
I think The Hobbit is a great read, a well told story that moves along and is not overly laden with, well, stuff.
As Tolkien goes on he becomes more unreadable. The Lord of The Rings is a classic, but nearly as fluid a read as the Hobbit. Very wordy and heavy (some would say too heavy) in detail (some would say uneccessary detail).
And the Silmarillion, forget about it.
As Tolkien goes on he becomes more unreadable. The Lord of The Rings is a classic, but nearly as fluid a read as the Hobbit. Very wordy and heavy (some would say too heavy) in detail (some would say uneccessary detail).
And the Silmarillion, forget about it.
