Liati, anybody cut that ridiculous nose off?
- Thread starter JayRaider
- Start date
I think the problem with the Liati, is that it tries to beat the White Star at its own game. It tries to be just as manouverable, just as hard to kill, and with just as nasty firepower. Since the WS is very good at its game, any other ship designed to do the same will fail. If I were designing an anti-WS ship I'd give it "normal" movement (say 8" with 1/45 turns) and an 8AD, 18", AF/DD/SAP Turretted weapon. Take that, WS!
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Burger said:
Problem with that is the White Stars can still dance rings around the ship. They can easily evade it and strike at other targets, or just swarm it and trust to numbers at adaptive armour to evade destruction. A single turreted AF weapon can only really hurt one White Star at a time, while the others can pour fire into it and kill it.
The best way to counter White Stars would be a general upgrade of the fleet with fast-tracking turrets for the ion cannons. The fleet would still have all the power it had before, but the ability to take on White Stars, too. A specialist ship would never be available in the numbers needed to protect the whole Centauri fleet from White Stars, and it would inevitably be vulnerable to ISA member race fleets and weapons. With every ship in the fleet effectively an anti-White Star platform they can't simply evade the anti-White Star ships and strike elsewhere.
It can still split fire... it isn't Beam, so can split between any number of WS. Double damage negates Adaptive Armour. But WS can still go for other targets, yes.. though who says my ship would be war or even Battle level?Lord David the Denied said:
The problem with such a ship design in general, though, is that it makes the game rock-paper-scissors. That is a bad thing. No one fleet should be able to instantly annihilate another, based simply of fleet selection.
You can make an extermely effective Battle level version - try playing with the stats a little.........it is then an effective ship. I think Battle is high enough or it has to kill quite a few White Stars to make it a worth while choice...............At present it is a nasty little ship and can inflict damage but not hard enough to be War.........Have not tried a War level version but it could be done - as mentioned with GEGs etc........... 
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Of course it can split fire, but that means less chance of serious damage to one White Star. You want to kill them, not sting them.
A small number of White Star hunters will suffer from the same problem as the small number of tank destroyers that were available in the Second World War - it's not where you need it to be. This is true of any military operation, any time in history. Planning to shield this battlegroup or that squadron with X number of White Star killers means that the other groups are unprotected, and you can bet your fragrant Centauri arse that the White Stars don't hit the groups with White Star killers.
Just like the Lancer-class frigate in Star Wars. Made to counter Rebel starfighter attacks, but there weren't enough of them, and the fighters could strike where there were no Lancers available, or the Rebels could employ their capital assets to hit the Lancers and kill them. The ISA would be the same; send in White Stars where there are no Liatis and use Minbari or Narn heavy ships to hit the Liatis when they are encountered. Or the Victory destroyers.
No, the solution is to make the whole fleet White Star proof. It might be expensive to refit ships with AF weapons, but is it as expensive as designing whole new classes of vessel, seeing them through design and production, and replacing every ship that's lost to the White Stars in the meantime?
A small number of White Star hunters will suffer from the same problem as the small number of tank destroyers that were available in the Second World War - it's not where you need it to be. This is true of any military operation, any time in history. Planning to shield this battlegroup or that squadron with X number of White Star killers means that the other groups are unprotected, and you can bet your fragrant Centauri arse that the White Stars don't hit the groups with White Star killers.
Just like the Lancer-class frigate in Star Wars. Made to counter Rebel starfighter attacks, but there weren't enough of them, and the fighters could strike where there were no Lancers available, or the Rebels could employ their capital assets to hit the Lancers and kill them. The ISA would be the same; send in White Stars where there are no Liatis and use Minbari or Narn heavy ships to hit the Liatis when they are encountered. Or the Victory destroyers.
No, the solution is to make the whole fleet White Star proof. It might be expensive to refit ships with AF weapons, but is it as expensive as designing whole new classes of vessel, seeing them through design and production, and replacing every ship that's lost to the White Stars in the meantime?
Tank said:
No offense taken, I am not talking about whether it was offensive or defensive (it was used in both rolls). All I am saying is that they where bloody effective at doing what they where designed to do... kill tanks. There is no doubt they where a lot more limited than tanks, but thats not the arguement I was making.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
cordas said:
They were frighteningly effective - when they were properly designed. However, just like towed AT guns and man-portable rockets, you never had enough to go around, and they were inevitably deployed in the wrong places. It's a rule of warfare - no plan survives contact with the enemy.
Lord David the Denied said:
Isn't this a bit like the argument about Centauri and beams - do we see anyone having trouble locking onto Centauri ships in the show? By the same reasoning only Minbari should have Stealth?
However, I am all for them (and most races) having a few stealth ships - most races are probably capable of making a few specialised, expensive or experimental ships especially once the ISA starts giving tech away. I think the Vree Scout saucers state they are very rare (not in the game but.........)?
Have fun
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
We never see new, cutting-edge anti-White Star designs in the show, either. So if we include them in the game, giving them uncharacteristic stealth technology isn't that far-fetched for the reasons I described.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Chernobyl said:
never mind John-Wayne
this is sick! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/6586879.stm
who would do that to themselves!? :shock:
