Legendary Items

[Clovenhoof]

Hello folks,

just registered here, going to start a campaign using the Conan ruleset this weekend, and I got suckered into GMing. (I have D&D player experience and GM experience in other systems, so that should work out)

I'm already sorting thoughts for a long-term campaign: one of the aspects I love best about the Conan genre is the idea of fallen cultures, whose relics may be found here and there (like Conan's Atlantean Sword).

So, since there is no real info on this in the Core book (at least I couldn't find any), I'd like to ask you if you use "legendary" weapons, armour or other items in your campaigns, and more importantly, how powerful these should be (or not be).

I know that most items should be either rather useless or very dangerous for the owner, but what I am thinking here is rather atmospheric, no-nonsense stuff they can use to top off their characters.

So for example, think of a War Sword (or similarly noble weapon) found (well preserved) in some ancient temple or tomb within a sunken city, attained after strenuous questing and somewhere in the party's high levels (15+).

What kind of improvements would you suggest? Just taking the Akbitan weapon template further, improving Attack and AP values etc., and by what amounts?
Or some other boon like increased threat range ("Keen")?

Has any of you maybe ever handed out a weapon with extra elementary damage ("+1d6 Flaming")? If so, I would expect such a weapon to come with quite a few strings attached.

And last question, sorry for this volley, are there also any examples for legendary armour? Maybe something like a Superior Breastplate that counts as light armour, or a Leather Jerkin made of Dragonhide, something like that?

Thanks for any input. ^^

 

[Oly]

Personally I've never introduced anything like that into my campaign. The closest that I've come to such an object is the sceptre from the Tales of the Black Kingdoms adventures and I'm currently trying to get that out of my players hands as quickly as possible.

Mighty and mysterious objects are things that don't really feel very "Conan" to me. In particular items that give out general bonuses seem very D&D. I try to keep my campaign focussed on the characters rather than their equipment.

One off magic items that have a very particular purpose are something I like though.

Tales of the Black Kingdoms has a great example of such a weapon. There's a sword that is rather powerful but in the end it has to be given up to defeat a risen God. Such items come and go but they're never the focus of the campaign.

Part of the "problem" that I see with magic items is "power creep". Sure a +1 sword sounds great to begin with but after a while it becomes rather dull. To tempt the players to high adventure you have to offer an even more powerful weapon, then one even more so and so on and so forth.

Aside from that Conan is great not because of some fabled sword that he carries but because he's Conan. You can knock him down and take everything away from him but he'll claw his way back up and take his revenge upon you. That's the sort of gaming that I'm after in my campaign so it kind of explains my attitudes towards things.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Part of the "problem" that I see with magic items is "power creep". [...] Aside from that Conan is great not because of some fabled sword that he carries but because he's Conan.

I absolutely agree with you there. In fact I've long been looking for a D20-based game that does not NEED magic items to function, as is sadly the case with D&D. I eventually chose Conan RPG for this very reason.

So first off, I think that such a "legendary" weapon should only come as a reward very late in the campaign, and be sort of the final weapon that the character is going to use until he dies or retires (unless he should lose that weapon).

I'm not primarily thinking about _magic_ weapons even. More like "superior craftmanship that cannot be copied by anyone in our days".
If you look at real world history, back in the migration era and following, like 4th to 8th century, European smiths made swords whose quality was never attained again at any time, any place, by any one, including the much-hyped Japanese katana. Only today it is possible to recreate the _performance_ described in historical accounts, by means of modern high-tech alloy steels and totally different forging techniques, and even these can be worked only by a handful of people worldwide.

So, turning back to the game, this is more or less what I am getting at. "Mundane" weapons but with a level of craftmanship that can't be found anywhere else.
And FWIW I am confident that the possession of a single artifact per character would not reduce them to the equipment they carry. ^^

 

[Oly]

So, turning back to the game, this is more or less what I am getting at. "Mundane" weapons but with a level of craftmanship that can't be found anywhere else.

I think that Arkbitanan weapons fill that niche nicely, they're meant to unsurpassed in the Hyborian Age. You could easily just use the same stats but call such a weapon "Atlantean", some other such artefact or just the dedicated work of a master weapons smith that the PCs have tracked down.

They're noticeably more powerful while not overpoweringly so and will give a character who has one a real edge while not leaving behind those who don't (another problem of the "+1d6 flame" type of magic sword).

Also in keeping with Conan the loss of such a weapon won't cripple the character but will be felt and should bring about the desire for revenge against those who caused it to be lost, which feels very "right".

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Akbitanan, Acheronian,
and Atlantean Weapons

...............................Akbitanan, Acheronian, Atlantean
Bonus to Attack, +1, +1, +2
Bonus to Damage, —, +1, +2
Critical Threat Expansion, —, +1, +2
Armour Piercing Bonus, +2, +2, +3
Parry Defence Bonus, —, +1, +2
Hardness Increase, x 1.5, x1.6, x1.8
Hit Point Increase, x2, x3.5, x8
Cost, x5, x500 ~x1000, priceless

Typical Ancient Atlantean weapons:
Axe: damage 1d8+2, crit 18-20/x3, AP 4, hardness 9, 24 hp
Bardiche: 2d10+2, crit 18-20/x3, AP 8, hardness 12, 80 hp
Battleaxe: damage 1d10+2, crit 18-20/x3, AP 7, hardness 12, 40 hp
Broadsword: damage 1d10+2, crit 17-20/x2, AP 6, hardness 18, 40 hp
Dagger: damage 1d4+2, crit 17-20/x2, AP 4, hardness 18, 8 hp
Greatsword: damage 2d10+2, crit 17-20/x2, AP 7, hardness 18, 80 hp
Knife: damage 1d4+2, crit 18-20/x2, AP 3, hardness 14, 8 hp
Scimitar: damage 1d8+2, crit 16-20/x2, AP 5, hardness 18, 40 hp
Short Sword: damage 1d8+2, crit 17-20/x2, AP 4, hardness 18, 24 hp
Tulwar: damage 2d8+2, crit 16-20/x2, AP 6, hardness 18, 80 hp
War Spear: damage 1d10+2, crit 18-20/x3, AP 5, hardness 12, 32 hp
War Sword: damage 1d12+2, crit 17-20/x2, AP 6, hardness 18, 64 hp

 

[Clovenhoof]

Smooth!
Did you write that yourself, or is this from some official source?
Either way I guess I'm gonna use that.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

I came up with it a few days ago.
Enjoy.

 

[rgrove0172]

We just started out campaign and Ill agree that the shift from the typical High End of D&D Items to the very low key approach in Conan was a bit of a shock for a player or two. Once the climatized however it worked smoothly and helped the Conan feel quite a bit. For example, one of the major villians in the game used a scimitar. Not anything special, just a scimitar but I described it as well made, intricate detail on the hilt and pommel, stylized guard etc. Suddenly, its a quest item for one of the players and when they finally killed the guy he lifted the thing above his head like it was Excalibur or something. I can see where the visualization of typical weapons can actually replace some of the attention reserved for magical stuff in other games. Another example is our Nordhiemer. He carries a sundered broadsword forged by his grandfather. Its nothing special, even has a reduced AP value and damage until its repaired - hes using a rusty old axe in the meantime - but once that sword is reforged - heck itll be an exciting moment. Hes been saving up the silver to have it fixed forever.

 

[Clovenhoof]

That sounds great. =)
Got to love it when players help create such an atmosphere.

 

[Krushnak]

yeah akbitanan is a good mechanic to represent ancient master crafting, just call it 'pre-cataclysm' or something similar. you might want to increase specific stats on the wpn like +1 to its threat range or further increase its ap.

some things you can also do is give the weapon a special ability that isnt linked to magic at all but the players might consider it so eg. the blade never loses its edge or rusts, no amount of blood or dirt can stain it. it could be made out of some strange alloy or meteoric ore that can hurt creatures generally only hurt by silver or fire etc.

 

[Foxworthy]

there is a pdf from a company called Misfit Studios called Barbaric Treasure which is for OGL Barbarian which is very compatable with Conan. It has some neat ideas on treasure that you may find interesting.

 

[Aelric]

Well in my current game I am running I am using weapons made of steel as legandary.Thus far the most common weapon they found was a bronze handaxe.I have some Iron wepaosn but not alot and I am keeping with the feel of low to 0 magic gear.I have been using the book from stone to steel for my choice in weapons and it seems everyone likes it.Note that the most advance weapon they can find would be a Iron weapons in certain markets where bronze or copper weapons would be in others.

 

[Voltumna]

Depending on the setting, a bane weapon could prove quite useful if there is a demon that can't be hurt any other way, like Kosatral Kel in that REH story, I don't remember the name. The weapon is only effective against a single creature (Kosatral Kel), or creature type (some demon type), and should be rather "modest" in size i think, but the fact that it allows to damage an otherwise invulnerable foe, is a great benefit. The bane weapon for Kosatral Kel was a mere fisher's knife, but that allowed Conan to inflict damage to a foe with flesh of iron! There is the case of the Phoenix in the sword as well, which I can't recall, but I think worked in a similar manner to defeat a demon in that story. I think there is a bane weapon in Skrolls of Skelos.

In any other settings, these weapons are quite mundane, a fact that i find interesting, as after the demon is defeated not without great dificulties, the characters could wonder if it was the weapon at all that allowed them to overcome such a great foe, and the existence of magic is again dispelled to the world of madness and opium dreams. Conan often finds himself wondering if what he saw was real, or a trick played by his mind.

 

[Damien]

Part of the "problem" that I see with magic items is "power creep". Sure a +1 sword sounds great to begin with but after a while it becomes rather dull. To tempt the players to high adventure you have to offer an even more powerful weapon, then one even more so and so on and so forth.

I don't think that's true at all. It may be true in D&D games, but that's because D&D is built in that fashion. By this logic, the Conan game wouldn't even function because eventually your players wouldn't think their mundane weapons, which is all that's really available in Conan, are good enough.

So give them a slightly better sword. What does it hurt? There's no power creep, because you're not planning on handing out even better swords later on.

So, since there is no real info on this in the Core book (at least I couldn't find any), I'd like to ask you if you use "legendary" weapons, armour or other items in your campaigns, and more importantly, how powerful these should be (or not be).

I've done it a couple of times. I think the best way to do it is to just raise the AP value of the weapon by a point or two. Simple, not distinctly magical, and fun, without being at all overpowering. "What a finely crafted axe -- it cleaves armour better than my previous axe."
Simple stuff. And that minute upgrade in power means that when the character loses the weapon, which he surely will at some point, he won't feel like he would if he lost some uber-weapon like in D&D.


Better armour isn't something I've tampered with much, though. The most I've done is had a player find a weird, never explained mail hauberk which had a DR value one greater than normal. The character remarked on how superb the mail was, and how fine the links were, reducing gaps and increasing strength -- but he wasn't so enarmoured with it that he would have a problem getting rid of it. Indeed, he dumped it readily when the party had to do an olympic river-swim to safety.


Just make sure your players understand that one of the aspects of Conan is that nothing lasts. Their equipment is going to get damaged, destroyed, or lost. They should not expect any of their equipment to survive all of their adventures. Rather, they should remember that their characters must be willing to toss their equipment whenever it's prudent to do so.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Regarding Bane weapons: yes, these should have their special effect only against one particular enemy (and maybe be destroyed with the killing blow). But up until then, they may very well function as normal weapons (or even have a slight edge over these).

One example outside of Conan would be the Blade of Westernesse that Meriadoc Brandybuck took from the Barrow Downs. A regular short sword in all aspects where it's a factor, except that it also happened to be the only weapon able to wound the Witchking of Angmar -- even though nobody had a clue about this at all.

when the character loses the weapon, which he surely will at some point, he won't feel like he would if he lost some uber-weapon like in D&D.

Oh boy, that reminds me of that particular accident on a NWN server I used to play on. I just had this beautiful +5 Keen sword for a few days, after grinding for it _forever_ (it was the best weapon grade on the server and had to be crafted by a Player Char using a plethora of components), when I just lost it due to an inventory bug. Luckily, the GM restored it to me because it was a technical error. I think I might have stopped playing otherwise, since these weapons were simply necessary on those levels.

What I'm getting at is, it's great to know that there are no such "must haves" in Conan. Even a regular sword is primarily a status symbol, and if you can't afford it, a Battleaxe or Bardiche is almost as good at a fraction of the cost.

 

[bjorntfh]

In our campaign we've found a few of "legendary items" but they're not seen as major magic (even though they are.) One is a Grey Steel broadsword, statwise it's an Akbitani broadsword with x3 hardness and x5 HP with the Ghost touch ability. It's a relic from an ancient temply and was paired with an arming sword of the same type that was lost to the party when the previous owner died and couldn't be recovered.

The second item we have is an artifact known as the "Tears of Isis." It's an urn full of honey wine that smells of summer blooms. Each dose (48 total) heals the drinker of all poisons, diseases, and at least 22 HP (we've only used one dose.) It's technically property of the high temple of Isis in Koth, but IOC the temple was sacked and we found it in the loot from a Turanian slave train inside a sealed pussle box. The box alone is worth 1000 GP (not SP, it's a DC 40 open lock check, x6 to get it open...) and the contents were the offering statue from them temple in pure perfectly cut onxy, 10 packets inscence from the temple and the urn. The urn is gold with diamond and ivory inlay and we've estimated that it's worth over 500 GP from the materials alone, but our problem has been that one PC is a devout follower of Isis who wants all the Tears returned to the temple in Nemedia while the rest of the party has agreed to split them evenly between the 6 PCs (we each get 8 doses to use as we see fit.) The rest of the items we're returning to the temple, including the Urn and any doses that the other PCs want the temple to have. (since only the Tears have any real value to us as mercs. )

The last item we have is a permanent amulet of Personal Ward against hostile spells (Opposed check, amulet has a magic attack bonus of +16) which was a reward to the party barbarian for single handedly killing a demon that was attacking and helping to save an entire unit of Mitran Witch Hunters. It was given to him by the high priest of Mitra in the kingdom we're in (one of the border kingdoms) as a gift from the high priest in Nemedia. It's (to us) the most powerful magic item we have, and no one really feels they need it, nor has it resulted in the power crawl for magic. It has the feel of a major quest reward, but not something that is impossible to get, just legendary (I believe it's called "Mitra's Grace", we've taken to refering to it as the "Warding Amulet.")

Overall a few major items sprinkled into the campaign can improve the world without overbalacing it. Just don't give them a dozen +1 swords every week, make every item memorable and important and you'll keep them interested without making them start to need the "next bigger toy."

 

[tneva82]

Myself I don't have problem with such legendary items as long as they aren't just +X boosts but rather have them superior quality products.

Sword of that type for example: Lightweight, keeps sharp edge practically forever, tough to destroy. Those are about only GAME related advantages I would have. Then I would add fun additions like: etched(is that even right word?) images in the blade, extremely intricate hilt and pummel and so on.

It wouldn't be decisive help on the game but would make excelent status symbol for the character to show off he has done something extraordinary(you don't find such swords anywhere...). Of course it would also be something thieves would be dying to get their hands on...Which of course could be used to create new plot points.

Armours would follow same pattern of course.

Just my take on it.

 

[Daz]

I think that the first magic item I'll put into my campaign (except for a few potions) will be a magic stone that heals a big pile of HPs of wounds with a touch (infinite charges)














But only works on wounds caused by a single sword, a sword that I'll try to get to fall into the hands of the PCs while the bad guy keeps the stone.

*laughs evilly*

 

[Clovenhoof]

*Thread Revival*

Alright, five months have passed. Let's talk about special items again.

First off, I read in a recent publication [I am not saying which to avoid spoilers, but those who read it will know which I mean], that the reward included a magical ring giving +3 to Will saves or something, no string attached.
I consider that a very powerful item for Conan. And I'm not sure I like that, it smells like a beginning Power Creep. Especially as the module is made for rather low-level characters.
What do you think?

Secondly, what special items have you introduced, or plan to introduce in your games?

Here's one I have come up with -- though it's not coming into play until level 14 or something, created with the Acheronian Weapon template introduced by Yogah of Yag:

"Cross of the North" (unique War Sword)
Damage 2d6 +1
Critical 18-20/x2
Armour Piercing 5
Attack/Parry bonus +1
Hardness 16
Hit Points 30
Weight 2 lbs 2 oz

This unique sword is a weapon worthy of a king, and most probably belonged to one in ancient days. It features a three-foot long, but surprisingly light blade with noticeable taper, and a very short grip ending in a slim pommel. The blade is highly polished (if found well-preserved) and shows small worm-like patterns in the broad fuller, which are signs of its complex lamination. It is also extremely sharp, hard and yet flexible, able to cut metal armour, bone and flesh alike.

It can be wielded at no penalty in one hand with the War Sword proficiency (or by a Barbarian of at least 7th level). It cannot be wielded as two-handed weapon, martial or otherwise. The blade delivers damage more reliably than normal swords (hence the change from d12 to 2d6).

Theoretically, it could be re-hilted to allow two-handed use, if the owner is willing to commit such blasphemy on this formidable weapon. This would, however, disturb the balance of the sword, thus negating the bonuses to Attack, Parry and Damage.

Okay, your turn.

 

[Spectator]

My one 'magic item' I've introduced lately:
Ring of Krotas(s reknowned Nemedian scholar known for his clarity of thought).
1. Gives the wearer a +3 DC bonus on all concentration checks
2.When subject meditates (as per Skelos feat) the sorceror may receive +d6 power points more per hour (so if greater meditation is used, then the sorceror receives 2d6+wis bonus+d6 power points).
3. Such power points gained via meditation siphon off at 1/ 3hours as opposed to 1/1 hours.

I almost feel as if I made this iitem too powerful, whatchu think?