[Law Levels] Let's see if I understand

[PoppySeed45]

So, been reading as I prep for my upcoming game. I had some issues with the law levels as written, then realized that maybe I didn't read things correctly. So, let's see:

If I understand, the "banning" in the law levels refers to the contraband listed in the Government types section of world generation. So, if a planet bans say weapons, computers, and travellers, and if the law level is 9, then I apply those bans to those "items," correct?

Also, for general bad activities of the players, the law level acts as the number to roll under to see if the local authorities take action, right?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Sounds right to me.

The Roll Under the Law Level also applies to random police encounters, ID checks etc.

"I see by your clothes, that ya'll ain't from 'round here... Le'me see yer papers."

 

[kristof65]

At the simplest level, yes.

Keep in mind that law level should be just a base guideline from which to derive everything else. Fiddling with the law level of specific items can and should be done as one of your tools to help give planets a unique character.

 

[Woas]

It takes a little more time, but I've rolled separately for law levels on each category. So a system might have Law 5 for weapons, Law 7 for drugs, Law 4 for Technology... and then I average them up and use that (rounding up or down.. it always tended to be a case by case thing) average as the number found in the UWP.

 

[Dietrich hault-Rauln]

It takes a little more time, but I've rolled separately for law levels on each category. So a system might have Law 5 for weapons, Law 7 for drugs, Law 4 for Technology... and then I average them up and use that (rounding up or down.. it always tended to be a case by case thing) average as the number found in the UWP.

And these sort of things can tie back in to the cultural differences table. It might be culturally acceptable (or even required) to carry a weapon, such as a knife, to indicate that the individual is an adult, but transmitting images of the human form may be forbidden on cultural or religious grounds - so no view screens or TV allowed on planet (or if there is TV, it must not show the human form, so endless re-runs of Animal Planet or Meercat Manor and the news bulletin consists of a static shot of some flowers while an off-screen newsreader reads the script!

Have fun!

 

[dayriff]

So, been reading as I prep for my upcoming game. I had some issues with the law levels as written, then realized that maybe I didn't read things correctly. So, let's see:

If I understand, the "banning" in the law levels refers to the contraband listed in the Government types section of world generation. So, if a planet bans say weapons, computers, and travellers, and if the law level is 9, then I apply those bans to those "items," correct?

Yes... though personally I take that with an even bigger grain of salt than everything else from the random planet generation system. I like to make bans on Travellers the exception rather than the rule, even on high law levels. That's what the PCs are and that's what the game's about and if they aren't even going to be able to land on the planet, why am I wasting my time making up stuff about it?

Occasionally as a challenge, sure, but not nearly as often as the random generation system spits out.

 

[Dietrich hault-Rauln]

So, been reading as I prep for my upcoming game. I had some issues with the law levels as written, then realized that maybe I didn't read things correctly. So, let's see:

If I understand, the "banning" in the law levels refers to the contraband listed in the Government types section of world generation. So, if a planet bans say weapons, computers, and travellers, and if the law level is 9, then I apply those bans to those "items," correct?

Also, for general bad activities of the players, the law level acts as the number to roll under to see if the local authorities take action, right?

Your second question first - yes, the Law Level represents the 'hassle' level the PCs will encounter, from random ID checks to how quickly the Police respond to a crime.

Now your first question. I've just gone back and reread TMB Law and Government sections and find I misremembered them - they are similar to CT (which has been my game of choice over the years) but slightly expanded, and with a twist. Anyway, it seems to me that rather than blanket bans of stuff with different Law Levels, TMB highlights the sensitivities of certain governmental types to certain technology types. So, you can have two planets with the same Law Level but different Government types, who have completely different ideas on what constitutes 'harmful', or 'destablising' technology or behaviour. It's quite a neat design trick, really.

So, we have a Govt 4 Representative Democracy (Drugs, weapons and Psionics as contraband), and a Govt 9 Impersonal Bureaucracy (Tech, weapons, drugs, Travellers, Psionics as contraband).

Looking at the Law Level table, if both our planets were Law Level 6, both ban weapons heavier than shotguns and stunners, and discourage openly carrying weapons (so one could infer that shotguns and stunners will require permits); both ban all the nasty drugs, as well as Combat, Anagathics and Fast/Slow - check your medkit before leaving the starport!; there is no censorship on either world (beyond, one assumes, the usual debate over 'morals'); our Rep Democracy loves technology but our Imp Bureaucracy has a bug about TL 9 or higher technology. Possible fear that automation will put a lot of minor paper shufflers out of work?; our Rep Democracy loves offworlders, while the Imp Bureaucracy is obviously worried that a) offworlders don't fit into neat categories, b) anything that doesn't fit in a category is a problem and c) they may bring unsettling ideas; regarding Psionics, while the use of Psionics is not forbidden on either world, there are a lot of hassles for any Psions (yeah, down with the Zho mind leeches!). Also, any Psi drugs carried are really going to bring the heat down!

So, that was a fun little exercise and lots of little traps for Travellers who don't read their travel advisories carefully.

 

[PoppySeed45]

Which is exactly how I finally understood the thing. Different governments worry about different things - most seem to worry about weapons, not all are worried about drugs or travellers, a few seem to worry about information technology being available for the masses.

Personally, I think it's quite neat. Even with the "no travellers" worlds. There's a starport and a naval base - SOMEBODY must be allowed on-world, even if it's by a wink wink nudge nudge agreement. So, players gotta figure it out if that's the mission...

 

[StephenT]

if they aren't even going to be able to land on the planet, why am I wasting my time making up stuff about it?

So you know what will happen when the PCs decide to land there anyway. Or when their patron sends them on a dangerous undercover mission there. Or when their ship crash-lands and they have to sneak halfway around the planet to the starport, avoiding the authorities all the way. Or when the captain's little sister gets kidnapped and is being held captive somewhere on the planet's surface...

Remember that in the OTU the starport is Imperial territory and local planetary laws don't apply there. So you can always land on the planet... it's just crossing the extrality line that risks getting you into trouble.

 

[Dietrich hault-Rauln]

if they aren't even going to be able to land on the planet, why am I wasting my time making up stuff about it?

So you know what will happen when the PCs decide to land there anyway. Or when their patron sends them on a dangerous undercover mission there. Or when their ship crash-lands and they have to sneak halfway around the planet to the starport, avoiding the authorities all the way. Or when the captain's little sister gets kidnapped and is being held captive somewhere on the planet's surface...

Remember that in the OTU the starport is Imperial territory and local planetary laws don't apply there. So you can always land on the planet... it's just crossing the extrality line that risks getting you into trouble.

You got it. Think of North Korea, or China a few years back, or, if you're old enough :lol: East Germany, and how welcoming those governments were to 'pesky furriners' - the people were usually a little shy but generally curious and friendly, it was the officials who made visitors' lives difficult.

 

[ColHut]

Oh gosh I seem to have it all mixed up then. An average world with earth like population (9), on average has a govt type of 9 and thus a law level of 9 - so absoloutely everything is banned? and on average no visitors etc. This does not seem right which bit did I do wrong?

cheers

 

[darktalon]

Oh gosh I seem to have it all mixed up then. An average world with earth like population (9), on average has a govt type of 9 and thus a law level of 9 - so absoloutely everything is banned? and on average no visitors etc. This does not seem right which bit did I do wrong?

cheers

Only 1 in 6 population 9 worlds will have government 9 - it represents more than any other single government type, but still a minority of all pop 9 worlds. And just under half of government 9 worlds will have law level less than 9, and so be slightly less of a PITA to visit.

 

[drnuncheon]

Oh gosh I seem to have it all mixed up then. An average world with earth like population (9), on average has a govt type of 9 and thus a law level of 9 - so absoloutely everything is banned? and on average no visitors etc. This does not seem right which bit did I do wrong?

A few things to consider:
* The chances of actually having a 9-9-9 planet are actually only 0.4%. A 2d6 bell curve is pretty shallow, and the chance of rolling exactly a 7 is ~17%.
* The government table lists "common contraband". That doesn't mean that every type 9 government makes all of those things (and only those things) illegal.

I personally choose to believe that for many impersonal bureaucracies they are not in fact illegal, but the process for legally importing them is so densely impenetrable that it would take a Herculean effort to unravel.

However now I'm curious. How many PR9 worlds do ban travellers?

Assuming a PR 9 world, the possible government types are 4-13, of which types 6 (captive government) and 9 (impersonal bureaucracy - rolls of 4 and 7 on 2d6 - commonly restrict travellers. There's an 8.3% and 16.7% chance of getting such a government type, respectively.

A captive government will need a law roll of 10+ (2d6-7+6 >= 9, or 16.7% chance) to ban travellers entirely, and an impersonal bureaucracy will need a roll of 7+ (2d6-7+9 >=9 or 58.4% chance) to do the same.

I'm going to arbitrarily assume that the number of these worlds that choose not to ban travellers mostly balances with the number of other governments who do. I have nothing to base this on other than a desire for simplicity.

Gov6s banning travellers: 8.3% * 16.7% = 1.3% of PR9 worlds
Gov9s banning travellers: 16.7% * 58.4% = 9.7% of PR9 worlds

So assuming I didn't mess up any basic sadistics, only 11% of PR9 worlds will ban travellers completely.

 

[Jame Rowe]

I've been thinking that the government codes need to be rearranged a bit.

What with high population worlds being likelier to have dictatorial governments than low-population worlds.

 

[drnuncheon]

Remember that in the OTU the starport is Imperial territory and local planetary laws don't apply there. So you can always land on the planet... it's just crossing the extrality line that risks getting you into trouble.

Since law level 7 is "visitors may not leave starport" and 8 is "Landing permited to Imperial agents only", I'd say that in this case they would be limited to the highport. All downside traffic would be conducted by the locals.

 

[ColHut]

To be clear, starting with a pop 9 world, (not worried about the others)
only 15 in 36 will score less than 7 and so have a government type less than 9 (ranges from 4 to 8)

21 in 36 will have a govt type of 9 or higher. Of those 21, same odds apply - 21/36 will have a law level 9 or higher.

so (careful here) 34% of pop 9 worlds will have both a government level and law level of 9 or more.

Of the those which have a government level less than 9 (that 15/36 chance)
results are:
govt type 8-5/36, score to get 9 or more LL 15/36 = cum 5.8%
govt type 7-4/36, score to get 9 or more LL 10/36 = cum 3.1%
govt type 6-3/36, score to get 9 or more LL 6/36 = cum 1.5%
govt type 5-2/36, score to get 9 or more LL 3/36 = cum .5%
govt type 4-1/36, score to get 9 or more LL 1/36 = cum.1%
Total = 10% govt type less than 9 but LL >= 9 (some rounding error here only fractions to 1 decimal point only).

So 44% of pop 9 worlds will have a LL >= to 9 – the only thing which varies here is what they ban depending on govt type.

Did I get this right – probability makes my brain hurt.

 

[drnuncheon]

Did I get this right – probability makes my brain hurt.

I think your initial 34% is off - planets with > Gov 9 will have a higher chance of having > Law 9. A planet with Gov 13, for example, has a 35/36 chance of having Law 9+: the roll is 2d6-7+13 so only a roll of 2 will give Law 8…