Latest S&P is up with stats.....

[Nomad]

EP, this thing has 8 damage points...hull 5 or not, it's going to pop like a soap bubble the instant it gets up close to an annoyed squirrel. And with 10" range weapons, it needs to get close.

That's my impression, anyway. I'll try it out.

I just can't see any circumstance where I'd want one, rather than a Hermes.

Give it a dodge score, or 2/90 perhaps, and I'd be interested.

 

[CZuschlag]

I originally worried that the Myrm might have been too much, but on reflection I compared it to the Abbai Tiraca and found it offhand to be valid competition and don't worry about it too much now. I need to see it over the board, of couse.

For a Patrol level ship, it carries an absolute Boatload of guns. 16 dice of guns total is a lot for a Patrol ship -- even with damage multipliers, I can only find other similar ship anywhere, the Jashakar with its DD bolters. However, while the Jashakar carries Scout also, this ship has one better hull, Interceptors, and the ability to concentrate all these on one target at at time. You get the twin-linked, turret, and antifighter options for free.

But nothing is truly free, and any beam system on the board should scare the ever living pants off this ship. But hey --- beams can't split themselves easily, so as long as you take an entire 3 of 4 die beam system up killing this thing ... well, that's what Patrol ships are supposed to do, right?

This ship apeears to be a poster child for Maneouver to Shield Them against standard interceptible weaponry.

I, offhand, see nothing damnable with the powerful and dangerous Kabrokta. Boresighting the Beam means no CAF with it, which keeps its firepower otherwise in line. Built like a brick s**thouse, but it isn't teaming with DD weaponry or some such. However, if you give its auxiliary firepower system, the Graviton Blaster, something to do, it becomes pretty scary. Drive this thing right in the center of a enemy fleet and let all those secondaries fire away; even without a horde of DD or TD, you''ll be rolling dice for a while, and if youre target doesn't have interceptors, whoever gets the Blaster and the appropriate Graviton pulsar will hate life like Devil Bunny Hates the Earth. Even the Drakh might be careful about surrounding Brakiri like this -- the side firepower of these things is comparable to a Tinashi already, and that's without the Blaster.

I am copying a comment from another thread on the Blue Star, which I worry about, below:

I personally think this new little ship is Absolutely Ghastly. Forget about the AJP bombing that just puts it over the top. It compares slightly unfavorably to the G'Sten! Because of Adaptive and Dodge, this thing is a hidden effective Damage Rating of 30 with 8 dice of forward AP firepower (4xdouble damage). Given the additional of the anti-fighter property, its main battery is not completely out of line with the G'Sten's Heavy Pulse system. You do indeed lose the large battery of Medium Pulse and the (minimal) side guns. It has less firepower total, but it has 2 90's and speed 15, whose value has been proven over and again to the ISA. And oh yeah --- I'm comparing a Patrol ship to a Skirmish vessel! Giving these little initiative sinks to the already hard to line up Whitestar stack is a real potential fleet balance problem, although I haven't been able to verify that over the board yet .... obviously!

I now know exactly what this ship is, finally --- imagine a Haven with triple to quadruple the hits and forward guns, but no side Twin Arrays, but has a AJP system. Are 3-4 Havens with AJP worth 1 patrol point? Triggy suggests that 2 normal ones is about right (a value of 0.4774). This is quite worrisome.

All of this is very early impression; I need to check this over the board.

 

[Target]

The first thing i think about these new ships is " god why does the Haven suck so much", i don't mind these new patrol ships being better but the AJP bombing does worry me a tad. I just can't see why they haven't improved some of the existing ships at the same time. S&P is the perfect vehicle for this.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well looking at the Stats on paper, I like all three. The bluestar IS good but I dont think too good (and I can see it being absolute Emine fodder for starters) If you use anything 'anti dodge' on it its effectively 8 hit points at hull 4 before its crippled and 10 hit points at hull 4 before BOOM.

However. AJP. Now then. I absolutely agree with it HAVING AJP but I think at this point NOW we need to look at jump bombing rules in earnest. Ive used JP Bombs in the past to a limited extend (by which I mean Ive opened maybe 1 or 2 jumpoints on an opponent if it left my ships in a good position too) and havent really seen a problem with them in the past. But THESE are oppen to HORRIFIC abuse. In a 5 point raid game you could field 15 of these. Or 5 NoloTar and 10 Bluestars for that matter. Thats FIFTEEN Jump points that will scatter at most 1". Thats 90 AD Triple Damage. NINETY. NINE ZERO.

Thats INSANE. That will destroy ANYTHING. Now at the moment at our club the only ISA player is me and I for one will NOT be abusing this (for starters I dont intent to take many bluestars anyway) but I can see this causing problems at tournaments.

Edit on refletcion you can only usually keep HALF your ships in hypserspace so thats ONLY 42 AD.... THATS STILL NUTS!!!!

 

[JayRaider]

However. AJP. Now then. I absolutely agree with it HAVING AJP but I think at this point NOW we need to look at jump bombing rules in earnest. Ive used JP Bombs in the past to a limited extend (by which I mean Ive opened maybe 1 or 2 jumpoints on an opponent if it left my ships in a good position too) and havent really seen a problem with them in the past. But THESE are oppen to HORRIFIC abuse. In a 5 point raid game you could field 15 of these. Or 5 NoloTar and 10 Bluestars for that matter. Thats FIFTEEN Jump points that will scatter at most 1". Thats 90 AD Triple Damage. NINETY. NINE ZERO

You got my support, i agree! 8)

 

[Locutus9956]

I dont want to see JP bombing removed from the game as frankly it IS seen on screen that jump points opening near a ship damages them. the issue is how EASY it is to do in game. Reduicing the radius of effect wont solve the problemas frankly its easy enough to avoid more than 1 ship being caught anyway and ISA can easily get 0 scatter and absolutely trash 1 ship anyway.

So heres some alternate ideas:

1) Stop them stacking. Simple idea really, jump points opening cause a degree of interference that stop others opening within a certain distance. You cannot open a jump point within 8" of another Jump point. If scatter would take the jump point within this distance it fails to open (you effectively count as having 'falied' the 'initiate jump point' action and this does NOT effect the recharge time on your jump engines). This rule applies only to incoming jump points as its the vortex opeing out INTO realspace that causes the problem. (The fluff is just off the top of my head feel free to tweak it as much as possible). The distance is also subject to change. A better version might be 6" restriction but reduce 'blast' radius to 1" (jump points CAN overlap bases with this version otherwise this would be less than wise).

This doesnt solve the problem completely but WOULD solve the problem of huge JP alpha strikes that the bluestar (and to a lesser extend NoloTar and Torotha) allow.

2) Make it a hell of alot harder to actually 'hit' a ship with a jump point. Leave the rule as it is currently but make the jumping ship make a QC check of 10 to actually 'catch' each ship in the blast. Maybe even QC 11 so you have even ISA need a 6 to pull it off. Not sure on this one but SOMETHING to make it harder to acheive. Perhaps make it require a scout on the table to perform a special 'relay coordinates special action' (without this your jp is may not be placed within 6" of an enemy ship? (it can still hit them but only by accident)

 

[H]

Love the Stats for the Kabrokta, looks one mean mofo, just fly right into the middle of an enemy and open up! Still would take kalivas for range and forward rather than boresight... Bluestars are quite breakable, but heck, just sit as many as you can in hyperspace and use the cheese tactics from cheesetopia to JP Bomb your enemies out of the game!
and the Myrmidon, why? really? it looks wrong and I see no reason to take one really.

 

[Locutus9956]

Oh I dunno the Myrmidon in rules temrs inst that bad actually. I still dont like the model but I suppose it might be tolerable if you trimmed the side pods a bit or stuck some engine nozzles on, then painted it in a more traditional dark grey/black crusade EA colour scheme.

 

[H]

or ask Urobach to design a proxy ;-)

 

[katadder]

see people go on about 8 hits with e-mines and 30 effective damage on a BS. not at all - use fighters - maybe one hit each, oops 5 hits and its dead. yes is has the dodge so it could have effective damage 15 from that, but then thats on par with some patrol ships and less than others.
can pretty much guarantee a dag'kar will kill one in one round with short charge e-mines on averages (as long as when crippled you manage to get the dodge trait )

 

[H]

see people go on about 8 hits with e-mines and 30 effective damage on a BS. not at all - use fighters - maybe one hit each, oops 5 hits and its dead. yes is has the dodge so it could have effective damage 15 from that, but then thats on par with some patrol ships and less than others.
can pretty much guarantee a dag'kar will kill one in one round with short charge e-mines on averages (as long as when crippled you manage to get the dodge trait )

Oh it's entirely breakable for sure.

 

[thePirv]

Might have to get me some Myrmiddons for when someone does an ACTA Stargate SG1 variant.
These things are so Goa'uld in design. They're like a cross between Deathgliders and Cargo ships.
Definitely don't fit into the EA design scheme.

As for stats wise, it's good to see that these new ships are pretty balanced (with the exception of the Blue Star being able to JP bomb. That's a game breaking mechanic.)

 

[Locutus9956]

oooh I hadnt thought of that, nice idea, chuck 5 or six flight of fighters at it and that would work nicely.

 

[H]

Might have to get me some Myrmiddons for when someone does an ACTA Stargate SG1 variant.
These things are so Goa'uld in design. They're like a cross between Deathgliders and Cargo ships.
Definitely don't fit into the EA design scheme.

As for stats wise, it's good to see that these new ships are pretty balanced (with the exception of the Blue Star being able to JP bomb. That's a game breaking mechanic.)

You want an ACTA stargat varient? I have one, Well, Karlopli statted it, we haven't playtested it yet, and need to do some writeups for it.

 

[tneva82]

But on a more serious note, all three ships are playable. The Blue Star will die under a single good barrage but can survive low AD attacks and has a pretty nasty forward gun. It's also an excellent choice for ISA vs ISA battles where it ignores dodge and gets around adaptive armor with it's double damage.

Uh...Adaptive armour still is used. Without AA it would suffer double the damage.

Where comes this strange DD negates AA thought? It still halves the damage you would have suffered.

 

[JayRaider]

But on a more serious note, all three ships are playable. The Blue Star will die under a single good barrage but can survive low AD attacks and has a pretty nasty forward gun. It's also an excellent choice for ISA vs ISA battles where it ignores dodge and gets around adaptive armor with it's double damage.

Uh...Adaptive armour still is used. Without AA it would suffer double the damage.

Where comes this strange DD negates AA thought? It still halves the damage you would have suffered.

Thats true, but essentially they cancel each other out, dd and aa :wink:

 

[Burger]

Thats true, but essentially they cancel each other out, dd and aa :wink:

No they don't, what about bulkhead hits?

 

[katadder]

bulkhead hits still cause one damage but no crew with DD weapons. so if you get 1 hit with a DD weapon wether you get solid hit or bulkhead you will do one damage to an AA ship.

 

[Burger]

bulkhead hits still cause one damage but no crew with DD weapons. so if you get 1 hit with a DD weapon wether you get solid hit or bulkhead you will do one damage to an AA ship.

Yes but if you get 2 hits and both are bulkheads, you do 1 damage after AA. If both are solid hits, you do 2 damage after AA. So DD and AA do not cancel out, since they differ if you score multiple bulkhead hits.

 

[katadder]

oh i know that. and if you get one solid hit and one bulk head its still only 1/1 damage