Killing for runes

RosenMcStern

Mongoose
Judging from the last comments that have appeared on this forum, the majority of the community has somehow adapted to the Mongoose ruleset. There is still a lot of stuff that requirese fixes, but these are on the way according to Matt Sprange. There are points that are houseruled away by almost everyone, but that's fine. I never use armor penalties and armor-bypassing precise blows, for instance, as many others do. The two games I played at Tentacles, both the one I GMed and the one where I played an elf, went rather fine.

There is, however, a point that totally spoils the MRQ rules when used for Glorantha. I would like to discuss it here, as I want to run a Second Age Glorantha game sooner or later, and I prefer that my houserules are as similar to "Generally Accepted tweaks" as possible.

I got the Player's Guide to Glorantha at Tentacles (thanks for the prize, Fabian!), and it has a nice chapter on the reasons why one should capture a defeated enemy and allow its friends to ransom him instead of just killing him. One thing that I appreciated in the old RQ scenarios for Glorantha was that there was a ransom value set for each NPC, encouraging the GM and players to practice captive exchange or ransom. This is covered in detail in the new rules, too. However, no matter how well written is the chapter about ransoms in the PGtG book, IMO there is no way a GM can persuade his players to spare a non-chaotic enemy's life. The reason is quite simple: runes.

Most theist opponents that your party meets will have one or more runes integrated, with the leader having usually four or five at least. Given the recent discussion on the price of runes on this list (2000 sp each at least), this means that a foe's runes are usually worh much more than his weaponry and armour, not to mention the fact that runes are usually not sold at temples, so their actual value to the PCs is even higher. Considering that the suggested ransom value for a strong warrior is 2000, and the rules clearly stated that the rune cannot be reattuned until the original owner is dead, what sort of idiot would ransom a foe for money when killing him outright provides at least five times more value in magic items? Whether you are a powerplayer or not, killing is the most profitable solution here.

I think the problem here is the strict connection between reattuning and original owner being dead. If the rules allowed a character to forfeit their runes, that would be a nice incentive to ransom, instead ("You have bested me in honourable combat, so I'll grant you a portion of my Orlanthi magic if you send me back to my family"). To be fully effective, however, the rule change should also include some means to "curse" a rune so that your enemies cannot attune it if they take it from you, making ransom a more viable option for them.

Any opinions? I would like to hear how others who have already played in Second Age Glorantha manage this kind of situation.
 
RosenMcStern said:
I got the Player's Guide to Glorantha at Tentacles (thanks for the prize, Fabian!), and it has a nice chapter on the reasons why one should capture a defeated enemy and allow its friends to ransom him instead of just killing him. One thing that I appreciated in the old RQ scenarios for Glorantha was that there was a ransom value set for each NPC, encouraging the GM and players to practice captive exchange or ransom. This is covered in detail in the new rules, too. However, no matter how well written is the chapter about ransoms in the PGtG book, IMO there is no way a GM can persuade his players to spare a non-chaotic enemy's life. .

I am running an MRQ 2nd age and I agree that there is no way to expect your PC's to do this with the RAW. In my version I am allowing much freer access to magic as a whole, and much more limited access to Runes. Players can only integrate runes under special conditions. This would be expected to worsen the situation, so I have come up with a version of some of the comments previously on the forum.
The ruling is that a rune is returned to the God associated with it on the death of a player. After all it is his blood! You can try to get runes off others without killing them, but that is at your risk as the God who granted it may well be seriously irritated that his intentions have been usurped, and I am still playing Spirits of Retribution as not only attacking in-Cult PC's but also 'enemies' of the Cult. Beware whose toes you tread upon.

elgrin
 
I am not too invovled with such antics at the moment, but I must say Elgrin that your idea is good.
 
The ruling is that a rune is returned to the God associated with it on the death of a player.

Sounds good, both logical and play-balance oriented. May we start a pledge to make it "official", at least for Glorantha?
 
RosenMcStern said:
Most theist opponents that your party meets will have one or more runes integrated, with the leader having usually four or five at least.

Holey Crap!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

In the few months that we have been gaming using the RQ rules the party has encountered two, count them... TWO runes...

I guess it is just a difference in play style and the fact that we never played the previous versions of Runequest (which I am thankful of every single day).

-V
 
RosenMcStern said:
The ruling is that a rune is returned to the God associated with it on the death of a player.

Sounds good, both logical and play-balance oriented. May we start a pledge to make it "official", at least for Glorantha?

May I propose a small amendment? "If the player or NPC dies a natural death (old age or natural illness), the rune will detach from the deceased's spirit and become available for a new bearer."

My reasoning for this is (in-game, using elgrin's idea:) that the former bearer has completed his purpose as intended by the god in question, so the rune may be passed on to a new bearer; and (rule reasoning:) runes-as-grave-goods are a suitable treasure-item - as seen in at least one MRQ adventure in Signs and Portents - and, as it makes little sense for a powerful individual to own a rune without bonding to it, the likelihood of finding a rune in a tomb would otherwise be practically non-existent.

Don't like this idea? Try this variation: "If the player or NPC dies a natural death (old age or natural illness), the rune will detach from the deceased's spirit and become available for a new bearer at a random point between 5-10 years after death". In-game reasoning: it takes this long for the last traces of life-force to vacate the body, releasing the rune. This prevents players from spending their days scanning the obituaries, waiting for runebearers to pop their clogs - and I can't imagine any player keeping a decomposing corpse around for a decade, waiting for the rune to manifest again!

Comments, please?

Carl Q.
 
I quite like that justification, CarlQ. Having several years elapse before a Rune is reusable also explains why there may still be many lying around, as well as those that are not yet found, and as well as those that are (perhaps) being naturally created as part of the interaction of the world and the gods and magic.

I'd already had something similar (as can be guessed by the options above), but not to 1d6+4 years.

It could even be extended to the extent that a person can voluntarily de-Integrate himself from a Rune (an hour or a day of work) to withdraw what there is of him in the Rune (regain his POW).
 
Mage said:
That or the GM shouldn't be so scroungy with Runes.

I AM the GM...

Things that powerful are of the rare variety in our game. If we wanted to play a Montey Haul campaign we would just play old school D&D...

-V
 
RosenMcStern said:
Judging from the last comments that have appeared on this forum, the majority of the community has somehow adapted to the Mongoose ruleset.

Hmmm, I doubt that very much. I have only played RQM three times, once at Continuum and twice at Tentacles. It seemed to work fairly well, but I still GM an RQ3 campaign and play in a HeroQuest campaign.

I've bought all the Mongoose RQ books, though, mainly for the background but also to support the new version of RQ and for rules ideas.
 
@vitalis6969

Sorry dude, did not mean to offend you. Runes are cool, but a lot of them strike me as being particularly powerful. I mean the way I imagine it there should be at least one in each game, and sometimes it takes two runes to cast a single spell.
 
Things that powerful are of the rare variety in our game. If we wanted to play a Montey Haul campaign we would just play old school D&D...

I'm an even stingier GM. We've been playing for many months on our current campaign and my players haven't found ANY runes yet. Although, I don't have any magic users in my group.
 
I think another solution is to make runes more common, thus decreasing the price. The knowledge of spells can be as restricted as you like so although you might gain the benefits of integrating the rune, that doesn't necessarily mean increasing the amount of magic. And considering that finding a rune and integrating it are different things (the required persistence roll), a lot of the runes might not be integrated by the players anyway and they would have to trade them or sell them.

I know it is not ideal, but the rune magic system with runes as physical objects is problematic to say the least.
 
Halfbat said:
I quite like that justification, CarlQ. Having several years elapse before a Rune is reusable also explains why there may still be many lying around, as well as those that are not yet found, and as well as those that are (perhaps) being naturally created as part of the interaction of the world and the gods and magic.

I'd already had something similar (as can be guessed by the options above), but not to 1d6+4 years.

It could even be extended to the extent that a person can voluntarily de-Integrate himself from a Rune (an hour or a day of work) to withdraw what there is of him in the Rune (regain his POW).

I definitely like the de-integration idea (and no, I couldn't remember the correct terminology when I wrote my earlier post!). I was trolling through the GORE rulebook earlier, and noticed that several of the spells therein require a sacrifice of POW to make them permanent - and voluntarily ending them recovers the POW. Much more acceptable than losing the POW permanently, IMHO!

One presumes that the relevant Runecasting skill would also be lost, and - should the character in question later re-integrate this rune, or another of the same type - the skill would reset to the base level, yes?

Carl Q.
 
Don't worry about it, you didn't offend me. Im probably just coming off wrong cause I haven't slept in like two days... :shock:

To make up for the rune casting problem in the rules most magic used by the players is sorcery, though when they CAN use rune magic, they do.

-V
 
CarlQ said:
One presumes that the relevant Runecasting skill would also be lost, and - should the character in question later re-integrate this rune, or another of the same type - the skill would reset to the base level, yes?

Carl Q.

I think that I would keep the runecasting skill at the same level until a new rune of the same type is integrated. Since it cannot be used until you get a new rune is useless, but the reason for keeping skill is that you have some knowledge of how to manipulate that type of runes and that doesn't disappear.

Maybe you could apply a penalty for using a new rune as having to learn how to use the specific rune.

This can give motivation to players to recover their runes if they have been lost/stolen, and to NPC to try to get their original runes back.
 
I just make runes pretty common in Glorantha and do not attach all that high a cash value to them. Magic is supposed to common and Rune magic is the most common kind.

A band of renegade trollkin may have 1 or 2 among the whole group.

Common folk may have 1 or 2 in their family, but most don't.

A relatively green npc will have 0-1.

A typical npc will have 1-2.

A veteran NPC will have 2-3.

Bad Ass types will have more, as needed.

In theist lands cults expect members to turn over excess runes. In Shamanic lands runes aren't all that necessary, so they don't have a lot of value. Malkioni don't need rune magic. The schools and orders collect them, but won't necessarily pay high prices for them. So I place a value of around 500 - 1000 sp tops to a rune, possibly less. In troll lands darkness runes may be so common as to maybe be worth 200 sp.

Then there is of course the normal 50% you can expect to get if you are selling the rune. The sell price is always lower than the buy price (assuming you are just dumping the loot quick).

Plus I attach a stigma to runicide. If you accept surrender, then discover the other party has some killer runes integrated so you murder them, expect to be treated as a murderer, an expect no better from your enemies. Killing someone after accepting surrender is a big no no (unless of course ransom is refused).

For games where runes worth 2000 and up to party members I ask this - how do you sell them? Do you go to Runes R Us? I imagine a party trying to sell a handfull of runes is going to fall prey to the same murderous greed that overtook them, with many interested parties all of a sudden be wanting to kill them and take their stuff.
 
Rurik said:
I just make runes pretty common in Glorantha and do not attach all that high a cash value to them. Magic is supposed to common and Rune magic is the most common kind.

Here is what I have been finding over the last weeks as the biggest catch for me... I don't play Glorantha, never have, and never will.

I try to keep magic to a "fills villagers with awe" level. Sure, the party has it, but they are heroes. And major baddies have it, but their flunkies do not unless it is a sorcerer or a form of divine magic.

In my world, rune magic is the rarest because it takes the "blood drop of a god" to cast. Sorcery on the other hand, takes knowledge.

Though I have been toying with dumping the whole "bonding" thing with a rune in order to cast rune magic. The caster can either use a rune or a totem to cast the magic. So, no actual rune required. Having a rune is just a nice bonus for the actual personal enhancements that you receive.

-V
 
It sounds like it beats D&D with its mass production of magic items. You'd swear their was an industrial estate for them in every village.
 
Back
Top